<p>Loyola, ASU, A&M.</p>
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<p>Completely agree. You’ve got to be pretty unsophisticated not to realize that the vast majority of Ivy League grads are doing what the vast majority of college educated people are doing – getting up, going to work, doing a fine job, coming home, mowing the lawn, blah blah blah – not creating new scientific discoveries on a daily basis or saving the world or writing the great American novel. </p>
<p>Originally Posted by jax123 </p>
<p>Both my parents went to Ivies (Upenn then Harvard and Princeton then MIT), and neither one of them has any qualms about where I go. If I can get in, I can go.</p>
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<p>This wasn’t addressed to me, but if I thought my kid’s interests in these areas were sincere and his plan well thought out and he had a plan? Then go for it. There’s nothing admirable about pushing people to be in a certain mold, and there’s nothing wrong with being a firefighter. Indeed, my H was a volunteer firefighter and if he hadn’t had the education he did, that’s what he would have become. We all fawn over firefighters when there is some disaster and they heroically rush in, but we’re supposed to be disappointed if our kids become them? Whatever for? Don’t you care about your child the person, not your child some-dream-you-have-for-them?</p>
<p>Just as with many jobs, your employability is increased as a firefighter with a degree.</p>
<p>I remember about 30 years ago, a friend of mine remarked about his daughter, “She may not be the smartest kid in nursery school, but she has the best social skills.” He got some flak for not believing his kid was the smartest in the class, which any parent would, right? Haha. </p>
<p>Actually, he was very perceptive and she now has a wonderful job in the non-profit field using her tremendous social & organizational skills.</p>
<p>We can’t all be rocket scientists, thank goodness.</p>
<p>"Just as with many jobs, your employability is increased as a firefighter with a degree. "</p>
<p>I have a couple of colleagues with advanced degrees who work on the all volunteer fire fighting teams in the suburbs.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why the parents going to Ivies matters at ALL! Not at all. There are plenty of B students with very smart and successful parents who did not go to the Ivies.</p>
<p>Also, competition for admission to the Ivies has dramatically changed over the years…it is MUCH more competitive now than when I was in high school. In addition, high schools have become very aware of grade inflation issues and many have addressed these.</p>
<p>Reality…those brilliant and wealthy Ivy parents in the article might have been B students themselves if they were in high school NOW…oh…and with acceptance rates under 10%, those parents might NOT have found themselves accepted to the Ivies.</p>
<p>Although I think the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous, I will tell you that in our case we first sent our son off to one of the “colleges that change lives” and unfortunately, it didn’t. Next it was community college plus the odd course at local LACs while living at home. Then it was community college in another state after we moved. Next it was the local nearby state university, all the time watching the kid mature at his own pace and become a better and better student. Should be graduating in December. :)</p>
<p>My nephew is a firefighter with an urban dept & double majored in fire science & business at WSU.</p>
<p>I would also second someone who said depends on how rich the parent is. There are plenty of B students with parents with mega-money going to the Ivys (and no you dont have to donate a building, just be on top level for donations throughout your life). I also know straight A students with really stellar extra curriculars that didnt get in ED to their parents alma maters because a particular ivy wanted to make a show of “see we dont just accept a high profile alum’s kids, we give everyone a chance” (they always get in regular). There are also tons of B students with merely rich parents at places like BC, Gtown, etc, and also many more B minus (some A’s some C’s some B’s) at places like Hamilton, Wake etc. As well as C students at Tulane, GW Miami.<br>
For the most part those kinds of grades from NYC privates and/or prep school do not mean they cant do the work. It usually means they exhibited normal teen behavior during High School and did not apply themselves. Of course there are exceptions.</p>
<h2>"What would they say if you decided to go to community college to learn the skills to be a firefighter or electrician? "</h2>
<p>Reallly, are CC’rs so narrow-minded that only elite college degrees leading to “elite” jobs are acceptable? I don’t think so and I certainly hope not. I also hope that Ivy parents are intelligent and thoughtful enough to realize that their children have their own paths to follow, not their parents. As long as they are contributing members in our society (and yes, electricians, plumbers, HVAC technicians all count as well as police and firefighters) and they are happy, I say all is good.</p>
<p>DH and I are both graduates of upper tier schools (UPenn and MIT). Our daughters were both B students in HS. We would have sent them wherever they wanted to go (if admitted), cost not a consideration for us. Both chose to attend state schools (UF and UCF). Both thrived at their respective school and both are now attending graduate schools at full cost (Nova Law and UNC - Chapel Hill Pharmacy). </p>
<p>My son was an A student in HS. He is now a happy sophomore at Emory U, having chosen to apply there ED two years ago.</p>
<p>Well it would really depend on WHY the child was a B student.</p>
<p>Work ethic? Learning issues? Intelligence weighted towards concrete vs. abstract, or social vs. cerebral? Emotional/family distress?</p>
<p>This might be one of the dumbest thread titles ever.</p>
<p>:)</p>
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<p>It is not just forum posters here, but it seems to be common for those in low skill low pay white collar jobs to disdain blue collar jobs, even those which are better skilled and better paid than their white collar jobs.</p>
<p>Vance Packard, in his 1959 book The Status Seekers, noted a conversation with a man who was lucky to earn $75 per week (this is $602 in today’s dollars, or $31,304 per year in today’s dollars) doing various white collar jobs and taxi driving. Packard mentioned to him that he heard that the local factory jobs were paying $100 per week, but the man in question acted as if that were an insult. In further conversation, the man admitted, as if it were shameful, that his father was a stone mason making $150 per week with short days and long vacations.</p>
<p>Indeed, I have seen it myself that when people in white collar jobs hear that there are blue collar workers who earn more than they do, the usual reaction is that of resentment (“why are they paid so much to do __<strong><em>?”) rather than “how do I get a job doing </em></strong>?”. This may also be related to the general negative perception of labor unions these days, as labor unions are generally regarded as blue collar organizations (of course, the labor unions and their members often barely hide their disdain in the other direction, which tends to result in even more general negative perception of them).</p>
<p>Don’t you think people in white collar jobs believe that they have the potential to eventually make much more, while those in blue collar jobs have less upward potential? Whether it’s true, I don’t know, but I think that’s part of the perception.</p>
<p>Actually, the article that is linked in the original post of this thread is charming. It fails to mention whether the parents of the students under discussion were Ivy/Ivy-peer graduates, or rather people who were just plain really, really wealthy. I see the behavior that author discussed as being the behavior of rich people who are more selfish than not.</p>
<p>Now on the the questions that is the title of this thread: There are five Ivy and Ivy peer diplomas gathering dust in my house. Our kid is attending a not-flagship state U. She loves it there. We can afford it. Everyone is happy.</p>
<p>I am one of the parents that wants her D. to be in Ivies, or a handful of top schools. Would I settle for something like UC Riverside, or Univ of Nevada? Nope. No way.</p>
<p>I see little value in going to a third-tier school. It looks like a waste of productive years, even if it is for free. </p>
<p>As a first generation immigrant, I see America as a land of opportunity … and college degree as a supplement to this opportunity. Most “education” that is marketed by colleges can be easily acquired during “on-job training”. Neighboring office has an administrative assistant with BS in Fine Arts, an administrative assistant with BS in Chemistry and MS in Education, and accountant with BS in Music. I am really puzzled by the relevance of their degrees. They are very smart and professional, but I wonder whether they could be equally good with HS education. In fact, the head of the administrative department is a HS dropout (she got s child in HS and started working early), and she is great!</p>
<p>I see value in Harvard-Stanford. I see value in working with HS diploma. I really don’t see any value in Univ. of Kalamazoo degree (even if the kid enjoys it). </p>
<p>Unfortunately, I am not that rich to afford buying Harvard admission for my D. </p>
<p>I understand wealthy parents that send their kids to Harvard (prestige, resume, connections, job opportunities). I see very little logic, when middle class folks stretch themselves with expensive loans to send their kids to a college "that is the right fit for my kid ".</p>
<p>There’s a line in the new book by the essay writer woman however, that really struck home for me – She notes that in her English PhD program at Columbia, there are lots of grads who end up teaching at no-name state universities in cow country, and then suggests that there are top teachers to be found everywhere. That has been my experience as well. We were fortunate in my department to conduct two faculty searches last year, and we interviewed some AMAZING professors from universities and colleges – often in cow country – that I was only vaguely familiar with. I’ve noticed that particularly in families where there are two academics married to each other, they may make a geographic compromise, or compromise on the prestige of the uniersity in order to get two jobs together. This is a great benefit to students. </p>
<p>We have a frightening amount of top-tier education between my husband and I, and none of my three high school students are looking at Ivies. I was on a Fulbright in Europe last year and I spent some time with the head of a department at Harvard and when I asked him where I should send my kids as undergrads, he laughed and said “Not Harvard” and then proceeded to list a number of schools that I was vaguely familiar with but which he clearly thought very highly of – based on the top-notch grad students he was seeing from these places. And NO – I won’t share the names of these best-kept secret schools – not until my kids are enrolled there first.</p>
<p>to Momzie,</p>
<p>I agree, there are thousands of really good schools and great teachers. I am one of the funny people, who value college name on the diploma more than actual education.</p>
<p>That’s not funny, californiaaa. I feel for your kids if you are serious.</p>
<p>USC/Notre Dame</p>