<p>Californiaaa, then you are nothing like the ivy league graduates in my family. They all value their ivy educations and would be glad for their kids to have the same, but their biggest priority is making sure their children receive a good education. The kids are all in top prep schools and if they don’t have the grades or test scores for the top colleges, will surely be looking a bit lower in the rankings, but they <em>will</em> receive good educations.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this is still true, but I remember seeing a survey about where college professors sent their kids to college. The top 2 were Oberlin and Carleton. My brother, a professor (with an Ivy league PhD) sent his 2 kids to Oberlin and Carleton. I found that amusing.</p>
<p>Mr Google assures me that I did not make that up: (Oberlin clearly #1, but #2 and #3 are tied, and #4 very close behind)</p>
<p><a href=“Three tips from The Thinking Student's Guide to College: 75 Tips for Getting a Better Education by Andrew Roberts”>Three tips from The Thinking Student's Guide to College: 75 Tips for Getting a Better Education by Andrew Roberts;
<p>The Most Popular Colleges for Children of Professors
(from a survey of 5,592 students)
- Oberlin College: 61 4. Duke University: 33
- Carleton College: 36 5. University of Michigan at Ann Arbor: 27
- Stanford University: 36 6. University of Chicago: 26</p>
<p>I’m shaking with anger and disbelief at Californiaaa’s post. You don’t think a kid could just as easily get a BA in Music at Harvard-Stanford? But you don’t consider it “squandering” then, do you?</p>
<p>Californiaaa…I really hope you are not serious! Do you know anything about what it takes to get a degree in music? Do you? Apparently not. </p>
<p>UC Riverside is a fine school. So is University of Nevada. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but I find your post very offensive.</p>
<p>The Harvard grad going for her second bachelors at my second tier school would disagree that the Harvard name is all it takes to get a “good” job.</p>
<p>While some here find californiaaa’s opinion in post #59 offensive, that opinion may be more widespread than people will admit. Given the obsession of some students and parents with getting into a “top” college, and the importance of a “top” college diploma in the hiring into some types of jobs, it would not be surprising if many saw the credential as being more valuable than the education.</p>
<p>Ucb, I have no doubt it’s a common opinion, not just by parents. That is the attitude of all many students who cheat in high school, who lie on their college applications and who exaggerate accomplishments. I think part of the fixation on a small number of elite colleges with name-recognition is that the fixated do not understand the value of a solid college education and do not understand the relationship between college (any college) and career.</p>
<p>Californiaa, a number of doctors, lawyers, politicians and heads of organizations graduated from colleges that are not ivy-level. Musicians and artists do not acquire that knowledge without college; in fact, they spend many, many hours in college or conservatory to learn their art. And, frankly, the point of education is education-- not job training.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>However, most people (including those who value education for its own sake, though not necessarily exclusively) would not pay a large amount of money to go to college if they did not believe that it would help them get the job that they want, or at least a better job than they would otherwise get without going to college.</p>
<p>Note that two thirds of bachelor’s degrees granted in the US are in overtly pre-professional majors, and many of the popular liberal arts majors are chosen for pre-professional reasons.</p>
<p>Georgetown College in Kentucky, Cornell College in Iowa, Holy Cross College in Indiana</p>
<p>And I don’t have an article to support this…but MANY college grads do not work in the majors from college…many.</p>
<p>And just FYI, just because one gets a degree in engineering doesn’t mean one will WORK as an engineer someday.</p>
<p>And having an Ivy diploma might open some interview doors for a person, but it won’t get them the job.</p>
<p>Around this time a year ago, someone posted on here about where HYP alumni encourage their kids to apply. The favored schools were not HYP, they were top LACs.</p>
<p>I’ll add to the chorus of people noting that there is a disconnect between the thread title and the linked article. </p>
<p>I am an HYP grad. The spouse graduated from another top-ten school. The kid has no interest in any of the schools we attended, and we are fine with that. The kid prefers LACs, and we believe those smaller schools offer many advantages over the big-name Unis. The emphasis on teaching is very appealing to us, not to mention very different from our own undergrad experiences. As we make our college visits, the spouse and I wish we had known about all of these LACs when we were applying, ourselves.</p>
<p>Our focus is on finding schools that are good fits for the kid, not on finding the “best,” a/k/a highest-ranked, school that will take the kid.</p>
<p>“However, most people (including those who value education for its own sake, though not necessarily exclusively) would not pay a large amount of money to go to college if they did not believe that it would help them get the job that they want, or at least a better job than they would otherwise get without going to college.”</p>
<p>This is why so many people are disappointed. There are careers that require a degree or even several degrees. In general, earning a degree will increase your lifetime earnings but there is a lot of overlap and significant opportunity costs to attending school full-time. In general, what a degree does for most people is change the nature of their work, generally from blue collar to white collar. In general, that opens up opportunities and gives them more career flexibility. To the extent that white collar jobs are paid more, they will be paid more. But if the goal is to make a lot of money, they can invest the same college money into their own business and probably end up ahead. </p>
<p>My parents are not from the U.S. One has a PhD and one never attended high school. When all was said and done, the one with the least amount of formal schooling (that parent was self-employed and ran a business) earned more money. My grandfather was born in the 1800s and had a 2nd grade education. We happened to be looking at some old records and, in 1960, he earned more from his investments than any of his college-educated kids, who were 28 and 30 years old. That doesn’t mean I would encourage my kids not to attend high school-- but if the issue was earnings, they could probably drop out at the state’s minimum drop-out age and open a business or enroll in tech school. </p>
<p>Californaa doesn’t value attending college for the sake of education and I do. But if his/her argument is that some people would be better off financially by sticking that money in the market or buying a McDonald’s when they graduate high school, he/she is probably right. In the meantime, I will continue paying the college costs for my musician because that is what he needs to become the best musician possible. But yes, he could work in the casinos and earn more money. (Then again, he can graduate college and still work in the casinos-- but we would have to factor in lost earnings from attending college.)</p>
<p>I have a question.
How much donation would it take to have one of these top schools to accept your kid (I am just curious).
We have seen some decent kids (but not spectacular) from our school who got accepted into these top colleges (< 6% acceptance rate). We know that these parents are regular donors - I am just curious - how much donation would it take to make a difference.</p>
<p>We have a friend who did make a 8-figure donation. Their kids (who themselves are pretty accomplished) got into the school. I don’t think you need to make that kind of donation to make a difference - do you?</p>
<p>An 8 figure donation should do it! That is 10 MILLION dollars…or more.</p>
<p>Not sure why all the hate for Californiaaa. If parents have the money to send their kids to any school then its a win win for everyone. But if a family is stretching or over extending themselves to send their kid to a less than stellar school is it really worth it? There are scores of threads on CC discussing how the state flagship is the better option than going into debt for a top tier school. Well does it make any sense to go into dept for a less than top tier school? All Californiaaa was pointing out was that not much taught in college is really relevant to most entry level jobs. An opinion I happen to share.</p>
<p>Well, the parents who attended Greater Ivies send their B student kids to Lesser Ivies. Of course.</p>
<p>Thank you for everyone who answered me.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I do appreciate that it takes plenty of time and effort to get BA in Music, Arts, etc. I don’t understand, how is it relevant to a job description of an administrative assistant, for example. In the neighboring office, I see women with a variety of degrees, and all of them are doing fine. The head of the office doesn’t have even HS degree, and she is doing great as well.</p></li>
<li><p>I really don’t see much value in BS from a third-tier college. Lost of value from the top 20 (resume, connections, etc.). Reasonable value from second tier. Marginal value from below top 50 colleges. Certainly, nothing from below 100. </p></li>
<li><p>I have several colleagues, who took a break to attend MBA or law schools. Unless it was a top tier school, it hadn’t helped them to bring their carriers to a different level. </p></li>
<li><p>I am a self-starter, most things that I’ve learned in my life a learned not in school. Currently, with all MOOC available, it is easy to get most education without college. (disclaimer, I am not talking about nursing, medical or any other hand-on profession).</p></li>
<li><p>In CS, for example, it is possible to get certification without college education. Further, many software companies like to hire guys from HS, as they are very creative and enthusiastic (especially popular in game design).</p></li>
<li><p>18-25 - are the golden years of creativity. It would be really sad to waste this time for a major with little value.</p></li>
<li><p>Many posters write something like “My kid is happy in college. After college my kid is mature and responsible”. Fine. However, many kids are happy at 18 years (it’s the age, not the college setting) and growing mature and responsible, when they reach 25. </p></li>
<li><p>If it is possible to find a meaningful internship or job after HS, I’ll strongly recommend my D. to go for it. I think, a kid may learn more in real-life environment than in college. (disclaimer - doesn’t apply to the medical field, for obvious reason). </p></li>
<li><p>Investment banking, business consulting, law, medicine, Ph.D (some exceptions apply) - all need top tier colleges on resume. Music, theater, creative writing, journalism - I really think that hands-on job training is better. </p></li>
<li><p>Unfortunately, I don’t have 10 million to donate to Harvard. So my D. has to study a lot :)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>to 2collegewego,</p>
<p>I am not an Ivy graduate. I made Ph.D. in Ivy and I worked there for many years in the lab. I do agree, there is a difference between undergrads and grad students at Ivy.</p>
<p>Most college graduates don’t stop at a BS, though. In the long run, it doesn’t even matter where you went for those four years. Whether or not you pursue graduate studies.</p>
<p>to STheart ,</p>
<p>I’ll agree with “Most college graduates don’t stop at a BS”. Thus I would suggest my D. to 1) either go to top name college, 2) or go to some cheap one and work in the area, where you want to work later on.</p>
<p>For example, in legal field - work as a secretary for law firm (or paralegal, sometimes, BA is enough).</p>