<p>“right but saying that is side stepping the issue”</p>
<p>no, it’s the old Clint Eastwood line from a movie about Grenda … “adapt, improvise, adjust, overcome” … cept he says it all Clint like…with his eyes all squinty and stuff… </p>
<p>In other words those four words have been what parents and fellow college students have been saying over and over… it’s just not sinking in with you. </p>
<p>Sometimes I have to remember some here don’t want answers, they want to complain and have others agree with them…</p>
<p>OpieofMay you seem more negative than mle. you had a point saying that the nice comments arent always the most helpful but do you think you are being helpful? in this thread youve seemed to take pleasure from being an antagonist.you even implied that at least two posters shouldnt have been loved or wanted by their parents. from former posts it looks like you have type 2 diabetes. did you eat before making those posts?</p>
<p>No, here’s where you’re missing the point. YOU do not have shoes; your parents do. You need to go EARN your shoes if you’re not given them.</p>
<p>It reminds me of the scene from The Cosby Show in which Vanessa asks Cliff, “Daddy, are we rich?” He looks at her calmly and says, “No, Vanessa. You have nothing. Your mother and I are rich.”</p>
<p>No, YOU have shoes. Because in this thread / example, shoes are not money to pay, shoes are parents with money to pay. </p>
<p>Here we approach a junction in philosophy of caring, parenting, and providing. Should you dangle those shoes in front of your child, or should you reward their hard work with them and offer them a great education and experience like you can. </p>
<p>If a parent has money and refuses to help the child with their education (keep in mind that most schools also require the student to take out loans and do work study), to buy frivolous things for themselves, they are nothing short of selfish (like my friend who’s father bought a fancy lexus). </p>
<p>It teaches their children a lesson in selfishness as much as it does a lesson in “making their own way.” They have a whole LIFE during which to make their own way. Why not help them with an education and then have them make their own way (armed with an education!).</p>
<p>OF COURSE you have to roll, adapt, whatever, if your parents will not budge. No one is debating that. But that is hardly my point. My point is the parents who will not budge. And if you don’t have the money then it’s obviously a different story but I’m not going to water down my point by continually reminding people of that.</p>
<p>I guess where parents and teens diverge is on the definition of “parents with money”. I would venture to say that most kids believe that their parents have more than they do. At least that would be true in families with the most caring parents, who generally shield their kids from too much financial information. Children do not always know the full financial picture - obligations, debts, job security, “rainy day fund”, pensions, retirement accounts, etc. And G-d forbid that the parent spend something on him or herself - $1000 weekend away?? How selfish!</p>
<p>rail, thanks for looking so deeply into my posts. I’m touched. </p>
<p>When a kid sits here and tells parents they shouldn’t have children if they can’t send them to their dream college… I totally agree… the problem is that it is 18 years later than that choice should have been made…</p>
<p>Sorry if your expecting me, to support that kind of talk… the “you shouldn’t have had me if you won’t send me to Harvard (or where ever)” I do agree.</p>
<p>"No, YOU have shoes. Because in this thread / example, shoes are not money to pay, shoes are parents with money to pay. "</p>
<p>I think it’s called a metaphor (sp)? </p>
<p>“It teaches their children a lesson in selfishness as much as it does a lesson in “making their own way.” They have a whole LIFE during which to make their own way. Why not help them with an education and then have them make their own way (armed with an education!).”</p>
<p>and some kids learn from it and some don’t and repeat this. in an aspect you’re not wrong, but in the same token people should save 25% of their income for retirement.. a quick raise of hands will tell you how many actually do this..</p>
<p>Your comparing an ideal with reality… no body really disagrees that it would be nice if every parent with means, helped their kids with college. However, that doesn’t happen, so the alternative is dyi . That’s what people have been suggesting and like rail pointed out in a much nicer way than I. But at just about every suggestion, the junior posters refuse to accept anything offerred. As you see, no one before you current batch of kids ever faced anything nearly as hard.. we just don’t understand??? </p>
<p>What you’re forgetting is maybe we do understand. Maybe we wallowed in self pity for a while. Maybe we realized we can sit or complain about what mommy and daddy didn’t do, or get up and get going on our own… Maybe we’ve made that mistake and are trying to help your generation avoid the trap. I benefited greatly from being the youngest by watching my brothers make mistake after mistake with choices. I paid attiention, which help me avoid the mistakes they made… you guys have people offerring you solutions, but reject them out of hand cause it doesn’t involve a pity party. How are you kids different than 20 or 40 years ago? The only thing that’s changed is a couple of zeros on the bill on both sides of the ledger (income/expenses).</p>
<p>It is a metaphor, and I was saying that poster got the metaphor wrong. </p>
<p>You have a point. There is very little good done by a thread specifically designed to kvetch about non-generous parents and celebrate how wrong they are. It doesn’t actually get anywhere. What we need at the end of the day is a thread designed around how to talk to your parents about helping with college finances or about how to do it on your own. At the end of the day. </p>
<p>Until the end of the day, I see a lot of people not acknowledging that these parents are wrong in their actions, in favor of advising people to get out of their pity parties. The latter is good, and needed, but it doesn’t change the reality (imho) of the former. Sometimes people just want things acknowledged. </p>
<p>And I am not personally in a pity party, I’m not even in this situation. I’m sympathizing with those who are. </p>
<p>And I’m actually a remarkably not pity party person. For example when I ended up at my safety school first (and second – took time off after high school) time around, I didn’t pity party, I worked my buns off and transferred to my dream school. And fortunately for me, my parents are helping me pay for it…</p>
<p>Opie, you know I am with you, but isn’t your head starting to hurt? (banging against the wall) We can scream, shout and go on for hours, but this is not going to change it. Come back in 20 yrs, the ones on the opposite side of the fence will be saying everything every other parent has said. :)</p>
<p>Chedva - I can’t agree with you more. I think there are a lot of people out there living well above their means, with very thin bank accounts and huge credit card or other credit debt. I have seen quite a few $2M homes go into forclosure, be sold cheap to someone who didn’t realize what the taxes and upkeep would cost. If they were lucky, they would tell the neighbors and friends that it really was too big for them and they would sell it before they too lost their shirts, pants and skivies.</p>
<p>Meanwhile S&D think that D&M are rich! </p>
<p>The kids get all kinds of stuff so that they are like the rest of the kids in the neighborhood. If he gets a Wii we need one too. </p>
<p>Parents do not hand over their bank books to the kids. Instead, they buy themselves expensive cars on a lease/own option that balloons after 3 years and they dump the car that is 2 years old for a new one.</p>
<p>Many people I know transfer their CC debt from one card to the next to keep the interest and payments at bay…</p>
<p>I got tired of the kids telling me that I had all this $ and showed them a spreadsheet with what was there and said, assume we become disabled tomarrow. There is no insurance. Dads parents are currently 85 so he has a 32 yr life span still and mine is 77 giving me 22 years. How much $ does that give us to live on for the rest of our lives.</p>
<p>The kids realized that even an amount that FAFSA said eliminated any need for aid was so low that by age 62, even living frugally (well below the poverty line), they would be supplementing our social security for the next 20 years. Their was reaction was, OMG we are really poor!</p>
<p>Obviously, neither statement is true, but teenage reaction was pretty enlightening. And, D has started to apply for a lot of scholarships on her own!</p>
<p>Clay: Unless you are managing their portfolio, you don’t really know what people actually have, you only know how much they spend and how.</p>
<p>"What we need at the end of the day is a thread designed around how to talk to your parents about helping with college finances or about how to do it on your own. At the end of the day. "</p>
<p>the simplest way? Ok.. here’s what you do. set up a spreadsheet of colleges at least five. Heck there are sites that allow side by side comparisons. On this spreadsheet lay out costs, merit, grants, etc.. and the gap needed. below the gap, list sources.. loans, jobs, military but leave mom and dad out.. </p>
<p>Work on this in private for a while… then simply forget to put it away. Leave it on a table..let your folks find it. You don’t need to talk about it, they need to talk to you about it.. it’s fishing and the spreadsheet is the bait.</p>
<p>Most kids have gamed or attempted to game their parents since “dad, can I borrow the wheel tonight?”</p>
<p>Opie, you terribly exaggerate things to fit your point. Never did I say my parents should pay for college for me. I said they have the ability to pay more than they have offered to POSSIBLY pay and I beleieve that is wrong.</p>
<p>You are possibly the most negative, rude person I have met on these forums. You should try to channel your aggression else where. No one will take you serious when you act the way you have been in this thread.</p>
<p>Here’s how I see the metaphor. In this case, your feet are bare in the winder. Your parents could give you shoes, but they have no boots to give. Yet instead, they give you sandals. I understand they can’t give me the boots, but I know they can do better than sandals.</p>
<p>Opie, with the way the financial aid system works, often most colleges will be within $2K of each other for middle class families. Thus, the comparison of prices does not work very well.</p>
<p>First, Opie is being honest, if you calling him rude, negative and to channel his agression is rude. He has the right to say his opinion and as we respect you, you should do the same.
Second, 2K is alot of money to some of use. I will have 3 kids in school at the same time in your theory I need to find 500 a mo. extra for a year. No problem, I just figured out where I’ll get it…sell the car I bought for them</p>
<p>If you read my comparison, I never said that the parent had to pay the 2K. I’m saying that if a parent is going to help, the 2K is going to be a choice made by the student, not the parent. Hampshire would have cost 1K less than Bard. I chose to take that 1K extra in loans. My mom said originally she’d give me 5K if I went to Bard/Clark/Hampshire, it didn’t matter that their prices were all slightly different.</p>
<p>“often most colleges will be within $2K of each other for middle class families”</p>
<p>THINK! </p>
<p>stop wallowing and think like a salesperson.. how do you make the sale to the parents… You aren’t REALLY doing it for yourself, you’re doing it to draw your parents into the situation. It isn’t about a 2k difference between schools, it’s about leaving mom and dad out. It shows that you are moving forward and making a major decision without them or their imput. THINK! </p>
<p>What do parents love to do? advise… tell you what to do.. without a dog in the hunt, they really can’t, can they? </p>
<p>“You are possibly the most negative, rude person I have met on these forums”</p>
<p>Do I get a award at the year end?</p>
<p>Actually all I am trying to get you to do is think. Unfortunately, you’re going too literal.
You are probably far brighter than me, the problem is your dealing with people (parents) not textbooks. People are unpredictable, emotional and often illogical.. you need to think a bit differently about the situation. It isn’t a straight line approach, it’s fishing… it involves bait, a hook, a line and patience..</p>
<p>Most people I know didn’t have help from their parents choosing colleges. I guess your plan only works if they plan on helping you pick. Mine didn’t.</p>