Where do I go? Brown vs. Notre Dame

College Search & Selection
1

Hello all!

I have narrowed down my college choices to these two schools. I plan to attend law school eventually, and my goal is to attend a top 14 law school. My absolute dream law school, however, has been Harvard for a very long time. I know that this is a lofty goal, and I would like opinions about which college I should attend in order to have the best possible undergraduate experience and also be a competitive applicant for top law schools including Harvard. I am not set on any particular major/concentration. I have considered many majors including political science, sociology, philosophy, and theology.

I have visited both schools and can see myself being happy at both. In a very brief summary, here are some of my pros and cons:

Brown:
Pros:
Slightly more urban environment, open curriculum (this is a big one for me), diverse student body, ability to design my own concentration, OUTSTANDING acceptance rates into top law schools including Harvard, greek life
Cons:
Full price (ouch), I’m moderately conservative when it comes to politics and most of the student body seems to lean liberal, I am also worried I would be extremely average academically compared to my classmates

Notre Dame:
Pros:
I was given a 25k a year merit scholarship + 12k enrichment funding, acceptance into the honors program, great school spirit, sports, the alumni network, still great law school acceptance statistics but not quite as good as Brown
Cons:
South Bend, no greek life, less diverse student body, less flexible curriculum

Based on the pros and cons and your general knowledge of the schools, which would be best for academics, extra-curricular offerings, overall undergraduate experiences, internship opportunities, and preparing someone for being a competitive applicant to a top law school?

Thanks for any insight! I am super undecided and decision day is just one short week away!

2

Would the difference in cost be made up by loans or can your parents afford the price difference? If it’s going to be loans I’d say go to Notre Dame. If your parents don’t mind paying the extra cost for Brown I’ll let others chime in on whether it’s worth the extra cost.

3

I don’t have direct knowledge of, or experience with, either school, but Brown’s open curriculum would be a GREAT match for you. You also want to participate in greek life, and that’s entirely missing at Notre Dame. But it sounds like the financials are very different. What is your COA at each school? Is the commute cost quite different as well?

4

Can your parents afford both colleges plus law school comfortably (no loans/no hardship)? If not, I’d save the $100k and go to ND undergrad since you feel you could be happy at either school. If money is not an issue go with your personal preference.

5

To try to answer all 3 questions at once… Brown would cost about 78k a year total with room and board according to their estimates. Notre Dame with the scholarship would be about 50k. Transportation cost is different; I can drive to ND but I would definitely have to fly to Brown. As for loans, my parents have told me and all of my siblings that they would pay for our entire undergraduate educations so that we would not have to take out loans for undergrad. If we chose to go to a school that was cheaper than the full cost of 75-78k they were expecting, then we could use that excess money for graduate school. Thus, they are not planning on paying for my law school. I will be in a good deal of debt after law school either way, but I will be about 100k less in debt if I chose ND.

6

Save the $ and go to Notre Dame. $100k of extra debt is way too much.

7

Go Irish

8

In that case I’d save the 100k for law school and go to ND!

9

Hands down save the money for law school. While I love Brown, I don’t see it’s advantage being worth $100k over ND.

10

I would say that if all things were equal, Brown! But they aren’t equal and you will likely have to pay for law school , so the money matters.

11

Absolutely agree. Notre Dame is a fantastic university, and no school is worth an extra $100,000 in debt over ND (just look at how many zeroes that has!).

12

The two schools are very different. Both have top academics but your fit within the campus culture should be important in your decision making process.

13

The open curriculum at Brown will allow you to shape your entire academic experience. You will never be required to sit in a class that is not of interest to you, and you will similarly always be surrounded by students who are engaged in the subject matter.

I can’t speak to the price difference as that is more or less relevant to the individual based upon personal circumstances. If your parents are able and supportive of telling you to make a choice independent of financial consideration take them at their word. People will tell you it’s not worth it but their situation and circumstances are likely different then yours. Talk to your parents and decide what is your best fit considering all factors.

14

@nocreativity1 OP said that their parents will pay for all of undergrad but not law school. Except that if they go to the less expensive undergraduate school then the parents will contribute that savings to the law school education. So OP will have $100k less in law school student loans if they go to ND. So while I agree with you that Brown’s open curriculum for this student would be absolutely amazing and give them a chance to try out all sorts of subjects, I also know that ND offers a terrific education. I’m concerned for OP about the impact of student loans. We are probably talking about the difference between $210k and $110k in law school loans, and that’s a life-changing amount. If OP can get their parents to reconsider the financial terms without the parents hurting their retirement, that’s another story. I can’t say enough great things about Brown’s open curriculum if you’re able to take advantage of it.

15

ND and save money for law school.

16

Is the consensus here that Brown > ND if money were out of the equation? Is it worth seeing if my parents would contribute money to law school if I chose Brown? The prestige of the “Ivy League” title is somewhat important to my dad and he might be willing to reconsider. If they were able to pay for some of law school would Brown definitely be the better option?

17

No. For the purpose of law school admission, there is literally zero difference between these two schools.

18

First, I’m not an alumni of either school, nor do I have a kid enrolled at either school. And I’ll leave money out of the equation.

I don’t see Brown > than ND. They’re equals to me, but completely different. ND is every bit as prestigious as Brown. It’s East Coast versus Midwest. ND is also about sports and school spirit. Brown has class sampling and open curriculum. And liberal. Also, living in Silicon Valley, there’s a large network of ND alumni. So, their large alumni network is an advantage. If you were pre-med, I’d lean to Brown. But you’re not.

I wouldn’t even know what to tell my own kid, if faced with a similar decision. :smile: Best of luck with your decision. Two outstanding schools.

19

Congratulations on two fantastic schools!

“You also want to participate in greek life, and that’s entirely missing at Notre Dame.”

Not exactly… You see at Notre Dame, your dorm basically IS your fraternity or sorority. They essentially got rid of the rushing and pledging. There are frequent social events within the dorm and dorms compete against each other in informal sports and games. Each dorm has a mix of upper and underclassmen and even has a “formal” event in the spring. IMO the OP can cross any concerns about lack of Greek life off her cons list. There’s nothing to miss about it when you have such a very, very close substitute for it at Notre Dame.

As @sushiritto said, “They are equals to me, but completely different”. Honestly, if Notre Dame was the highest bidder, I’d go with them, and have your parents help out with law school.

20

I think you make an interesting point, Groundwork2022, about social dynamics that can feel similar to a fraternity or sorority while a person is in school. Many people would enjoy that. However, Greek membership is for life, and students often continue their involvement with the national chapters long after their college years. Affiliation and leadership positions within the organization end up on one’s résumé, and regional events can be a great way to connect, personally and professionally, throughout one’s adult life. To be clear, I had no interest in going Greek, but I have many friends who did, and, decades later, they do continue to reap the benefits of their membership. It sounds like Notre Dame has a great setup that could feel like a nice substitute during the college years. Personally, I would have been quite content with that. But, depending on OP’s hopes and goals in wanting to join the Greek system, a great dorm setup is nowhere near the same thing. That said, Greek membership may not be particularly critical to OP’s choice, and I enjoyed learning abut ND’s dorm life! Thanks for sharing.