Where is the starting line, anyway?

Parent Cafe
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Apologizing in advance for the length and ambiguous nature of this post. I don’t expect clear answers, but more of a conversational approach that will prompt some additional thinking on my part and spur some choices to be made. It may be nothing more than therapy on my part. [I’ve just now re-read the whole post and it is absurdly long]

My Son is a Junior at a well regarded Private High School. The sudden influx of mail from nice colleges and universities is a wake up call that we are behind in the “planning, discussing, and deciding” of the things we need to be doing to prepare for college.

One issue, and the main one that is the cause of our stagnation, is the the Son doesn’t have ANY idea what he may like to study, or “do with the rest of his life”. I don’t expect him to know that either, but it sure would make narrowing college decisions easier if he had some idea….

His initial SAT and ACT results are in. 36 Comprehensive ACT, 1540 SAT M&L. It is my understanding these have not been sent anywhere yet. He will take the SAT a second time - he thought he had an 800 on Maths but was 790 and is annoyed by it. His course load is fairly rigorous (e.g., 4H and 1 AP right now) with AP and H classes each semester and scheduled for next year. Honors courses all prior years. The number of AP classes are hindered somewhat by another class commitment. He’s a few Bs prior to this year so his unweighted GPA is 3.9 with a 4.1 weighted GPA (approximates). The school does not rank, but he would NOT be near the top (significant perfect transcripts here), but is on the Honor Roll and NHS. His extracurriculars are light: Various volunteer hours required by the school or NHS, one V sport, NHS, Editor of a school publication.

So, he has some math aptitude but has NO interest in Engineering (other than perhaps Biomedical) and little interest other in the sciences. A school focused on engineering and sciences is likely not a great fit with his interests, although he would do ok. He has no particular love of computers or technology like many of his peers do. He is frankly NOT a natural writer, but works at it. He has an interest in studying History, but no thoughts of the practical applications of it. I hesitate at the idea of paying for expensive History (degrees.

He is not terribly set on one part of the country or another, and his only opinion on schools so far are “not too big, not too small”. That probably translates to 8-15K students? A “college town” vibe is probably a decent match.

Looking way ahead, I think the law may be something that interests him - although he has never mentioned it. On that note, I have started to look at some LAC, or Universities with excellent programs in diverse disciplines. Places like Rice or Vanderbilt fit this criteria I think. I am not sure if those are a stretch for him - any essays are likely to not overwhelm the reader - and we really are open to looking any direction including our local State Schools which may provide an affordable option.

Wow, that was really a very long way of saying: How shall we start to narrow down school choices with a well tested student that has limited extra curricular activities and will be some what limited by grades and and the depth of his application, given they don’t have a passion or direction of study?

And I haven’t even touched on finances yet. That’s another barrel of worms.

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Finances is the barrel of worms you should open first.

The issues in your post come later.

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Marian speaks the truth.

Tell us what your constraints are and what your instate options are and we can be helpful. Right now all I can tell you is that your son would love McGill and hate WPI which isn’t very helpful.

History is a great major by the way. Learning to read, write, analyze, and think critically is at the heart of many well paying professions even if you don’t want to pay for a history degree.

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Why would he retake the SAT? A 1540 will not be a bar to any school.

Agreed that finances should be considered now to help scope the potential application set. I recommend he use the gen eds wherever he attends to try to try things and find what he likes.

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Rice is a very good option as a school. You can begin to narrow down the school list by identifying what he doesn’t like. My DS prefers warm/hot weather. I strongly suggested he remove U of Chicago from his list. :slight_smile:

Just throwing out some ideas here - Perhaps he can take an aptitude test geared toward identifying his work styles. Inside/outside, repeating/ad hoc, interactive/solitary, etc. Law is good, since there are so many ways to apply it. He might enjoy a career in business management consulting or actuary work, with his aptitude for math. It was probably the end junior or summer before senior year before my DS was able to voice any sort of career interest. I would seek to expose your son to lots of different things to see what might inspire him.

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Here’s a quick answer to the title of your post: “the starting line is money.”

That’s the top criteria for the beginning of the college search process. If you need extensive FA, you will approach the process VERY DIFFERENTLY than if you can pay for (example) a Vanderbilt or Rice with minimal assistance.

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First, no need to re-take SAT as a 790 in math is not really different than an 800. That is likely one question wrong.

Second, surprising that a well-regarded private high school hasn’t had some discussion with him and with you about this with a second-semester junior. I would think such a meeting would be upcoming.

The only thing to do is to start and talk to the guidance/college counselor with an initial list. He seems like he has good stats. Pick some schools and just go look over spring break. Have him go to info sessions and tours. If you’re on the east coast, Boston area is a great place to start as you can see schools like Harvard, U Mass Amherst, and smaller LACs like Williams.

And finances are the key. Look at the net price calculators and see what you might get and what you might have to pay. If the top schools don’t offer enough, move down the rankings and find a school that will offer a lot of merit money.

If he is not sure about college, consider a gap year.

Not too late, but time to get moving.

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OK, Well, Loans will be used to fund our parent costs. ROM is something on the order of 10K per year might be expected. I recognize this is relatively small.

My expectation is that the gap between what FAFSA or whatever the acronym is thinks we can fund, and what we can fund in practice is large. We would certainly focus additional effort on those schools that provide additional financial rewards beyond just meeting assumed “Financial Needs”. Hope that helps frame it, at least some what.

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After the finances are figured out, get him a copy of the Fiske Guide and have him look through that to see what colleges may interest him on paper.

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It is very helpful to know both your household taxable income and what your feel you can pay out of pocket per year. That makes the suggestions more targeted to a different group of schools. (Presuming you want specific suggestions).

For instance, if your income is $200k, and you can pay 20k per year, people will recommend schools where your S can get merit scholarships.

If your income is $70k and you think you can pay 3-5k, they will suggest schools that give excellent financial aid packages (many do not).

If money is not an issue because you can pay up to $65k out of savings, then that is a different set of schools!

Also, if law school is a thought, then the undergrad prestige is less important than him being able to 1) get a high GPA in undergrad and B) save $ to pay for it. And history is a great major for law school.

Don’t worry too much on majors. Outside of engineering/nursing, the first year is mostly general requirement credits only. He has time!

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@TQfromtheU

Thanks, ironic that you mention University of Chicago as it is another interesting one that made my initial “lack of any real criteria” short list. Also interesting the you mention an actuary, as that is very much how his brain thinks.

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@mom2and

Thanks.
The well regarded private school HAS just started these discussions. He meets with the college admissions specific advisor in a week or so, and the school is proactive in this regard.

That doesn’t mean, however, that he knows what he wants to do yet. :wink:

We are no where close to the East Coast, but I am somewhat familiar with the Boston Schools. It is an area he would consider, if the school was right. As far as visits, it is likely they will need to wait until the summer.

But, In essence, we agree … time to get moving …

Regarding a gap year, I think they are increasingly valuable for many students, and I say that from experience. Probably not the right choice for THIS student though.

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If your HS has naviance that will be a huge help. The admissions advisor can show him where kids with stats like his have been admitted, where they’ve been rejected in the last few years. That gives a nice starting point.

He doesn’t need to know what he wants to do with his forever life and career. Knowing that he likes snow, doesn’t care if the college has a winning basketball team, and wants to be within a 6 hour radius of home is a perfectly respectable way to begin. oh- and that you can only pay X out of pocket for four years.

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A few comments:

–Yes, I agree that finances need to be tacked upfront. It is important that you be honest with your S upfront about any financial limitations you have, run the net price calculators at schools you are considering etc. If you think grad school is in his future that should be a consideration in determining what is available to spend on undergrad education. If finances are an issue you can look for schools where your S might qualify for merit aid.

–From a parent’s standpoint consider any other limitations you will impose on your son’s college choices (ex. geographic, anything else) and let him know those upfront as well.

–We started our research by reading some good college guide books (ex. Fiske, Princeton Review) which can probably be found at a guidance office or library or they can be purchased.

–Try to visit a few different types of schools and see what resonates with your S.

–Ask your S to consider things he might want in a college, not only academically but otherwise. For example how does he feel about big time sports, Greek Life, location (geographic as well as urban/rural/suburban) etc.

–If you look at your state u ask if there is an honors program and if your S might be a candidate for it.

–Recognize that it is perfectly fine that your S doesn’t have a set path yet. He sounds like a bright and capable young man and will have many choices.

–Personally I wouldn’t bother re-taking the SAT, especially with a 36 ACT. I think that time could be better spent. Also IMO while his ECs are not unusual, they are fine and show some depth of in his activities.

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That barrel needs to be opened first. Determine what you are able and willing to spend on his college costs (without compromising your retirement or ability to contribute for any younger siblings’ college costs). Run net price calculators on a few colleges of interest (including those which are safeties for admission) to get an idea of whether need-based financial aid will be sufficient (if not, then he will need to aim for merit scholarships, not just admission). Then you can tell him what the cost constraints are before he makes his application list, so that he does not waste any effort on any schools which are clearly unaffordable, and knows whether he needs merit scholarships (rather than just admission) for other schools.

Try not to be like this parent:

Summer between 11th and 12th grade (“money is not a factor in the decision”):
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1789885-best-schools-for-math-comp-sci-with-undergrad-research.html

Spring in 12th grade (parent does not want to pay for expensive private school on original list):
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1866912-need-advice-on-college-choice-etc-p1.html

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I agree that the first cut is figuring out what you can afford, and then running the net price calculators on a variety of schools to see how they match up. With both our kids, colleges had to come out of that exercise with a mom/dad green light before the kids did anything else. Once that is done, then given where his test scores are you should really look broadly. I am a huge proponent of kids not narrowing in on one topic in high school. The world is so much broader than they know at that point that in a lot of ways it is silly to say “I want to do x”. So I think you are on the right track looking at schools that are generally strong across disciplines, rather than just in a few discrete areas. Vandy and Rice are good places to start. In that same general ballpark, Georgetown, Northwestern, Tufts, maybe Notre Dame? I certainly do not think it would be nuts to look at the Ivys either if one of those appeals to your son. Cornell seems like it might (or at least I always thought of it as similar to Northwestern and Vandy), although it is a bit bigger. A lot of these schools are a tough ticket sure, but a 3.9 unweighted with a 36 and playing a varsity sport is nothing to sneeze at, and I wouldn’t limit yourselves at all at this stage. Of course, you should also look at a lot of schools that are a bit easier to get into. Miami of Ohio, Boston College and William and Mary come to mind as excellent schools across the board that are about the right size in good college towns.

One other thing, but you aren’t really behind at all. Junior spring and summer is a great time to start looking seriously at schools. Good luck and enjoy it.

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His time would be better spent figuring out which SAT Subject Tests to take this spring and then taking them. Since he does not know what colleges he plans to apply to (some require these tests even for students who have taken the ACT, and some don’t) and since it often makes sense to take Subject Tests at the end of 11th grade, they should be on his radar screen (unless he has already taken them).

It may also make sense to visit two or three schools during his upcoming Spring Break. Since he’s not sure where he wants to apply yet, this is simply preliminary research. He and you could pick some nearby schools – say one big one, one medium-sized, and one small. Or maybe one urban, one suburban, and one rural. Or maybe your state university and a couple of other randomly selected places. He may learn a lot from his own impressions.

Just don’t pick schools that you are unlikely to be able to afford (i.e., expensive schools that are so extremely selective that he would be unlikely to get a merit scholarship or that don’t give merit scholarships at all).

One more point: People who are sort of mathy but not extremely so and sort of liberal artsy but not extremely so sometimes find a congenial home in an economics major.

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His ACT is perfect, no need to waste time/energy/money on another SAT.

UNC-Chapel Hill is bigger than your ideal however for some reason it strikes me as a perfect fit for him–plenty of room to grow.

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@HRSMom

Thank you.

TaxInc is likely to be 135K, and we would be looking to pay ~10K per year. This is, understandably, an issue. While our financial needs may seem low, the ability to pay will be for reasons I wont go in to here.

You mention: “Outside of engineering/nursing, the first year is mostly general requirement credits only. He has time” while this is true, he has time, we still want to make the optimal choice given what we DO know. Knowing you have NO interest in just one field is a lot less helpful than knowing you HAVE an interest in just one field. :wink: We want to make sure our choice sets him up for success with quality of education, cost, diversity of the RIGHT study choices, plus all the college life stuff.

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In that case, then you might want to focus first on in-state public schools. $10K/year from parents plus up to ~$8K/y in “self help” (student loans and work-study) would cover the full COA at some public colleges. If necessary, commuting from home could help minimize room & board costs.

Another option would be to focus on schools that offer automatic full tuition (or full ride) merit scholarships for qualifying stats. Here’s one list: http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/