@Marian makes an excellent point, especially if your child’s school is not geared towards the AP curriculum. Typically, AP courses will prepare students well for corresponding SAT II subject tests. It’s not a perfect 1:1 correspondence but, for example, APUSH is solid preparation for the SAT II in US history.
D’s school does not offer AP so teacher input was essential to come up with a short list of best bets. These choices were confirmed by the sampling my D then did on the CB site. We then looked for recommendations on this site for the best study guides for specific subject tests and they were very helpful.
@DavidPuddy As a parent with a similar budget with a much higher EFC than our budget, your child needs to apply strategically to maximize merit $$. Meets need only schools are most likely going to be unaffordable. (They are for us.)
His competitiveness for some competitive scholarships will depend on what he is accomplishing outside of the classroom. Duke’s Robertson, Vanderbilt’s Chancellor, and similar type scholarships might be possible reaches if his outside achievements are stellar.
But that is not an application strategy. He could pursue a few of those, but he needs to equally apply to less competitive scholarships to ensure that he has solid financial options at the end of application season bc those scholarships are incredibly competitive and cannot be relied on in any way. (We are a pursue merit family with lots of children and thankfully our current college student attends on full scholarships and our 12th grader just found she will also be attending on almost full scholarship. In order to achieve those results, they applied broadly, investigated all merit options at various schools, and applied well (put a lot of effort into their applications.))
My younger kid loves to camp and hike, but he definitely did not want to live in a rural campus. He hated the really urban ones without a real green space as well. He didn’t like really big unis or tiny LACs. He was my Goldilocks kid.
My other kid was like blossom’s oldest all he wanted was a good CS program and a sufficient collection of nerdy people to play games with. He was fine with tiny and super techy (Caltech, WPI) and much larger and more varied in their offerings (Carnegie Mellon, Harvard - which turned out to have a nice contingent of board gaming kids).
You are in a position of many families and likely have to chase merit aid. Is he on financial aid at this private school? Does he have any “hooks” for admission or scholarships? If not, you will likely need to move down the rankings list for significant merit money. Star t with visiting your state flagship, with honors college if applicable, over this spring break if at all possible or on a Saturday. That may end up being his best choice. There is a “best merit money” thread that may help you get started.
Travel expenses can be challenging. The cost of a flight in July may not be indicative of the cost the day before Thanksgiving or a return trip after winter break.
NMF is great, but does not provide a lot of money at many schools. My son (now quite a few years ago) got half tuition, but that would not be enough for you. Does your employer offer any scholarships? That might help.
Hopefully, the meeting with his counselor will help him narrow down his choices. Which AP class does he like the best and the least? Maybe you have to ask very specific questions if he says I like them all - what do you like about math? Do you like Chem lab or prefer the classroom? Do you like the programming aspect of math or the proofs?
@DavidPuddy – I would heed the advice of @Mom2aphysicsgeek. She has been through this a few times, with great success for different children, so is a font of knowledge. Many others have offered excellent advice also, so not taking anything away from them.
An aside, when I read your use of ‘maths’, I assumed British.
One word of caution is to recognize that some people say full-ride when they mean full-tuition, a $12,000-$15,000 distinction. That might not be a distinction that matters to everyone, but it is a huge distinction for us.
@DavidPuddy, you have a lot of information to wade through in this thread, but I think the most important point is that finances are the number one consideration.
Illustrative story: I have a friend whose family was in a financial situation similar to yours. His son, who had credentials similar to your son’s, applied to colleges based on location, curriculum, majors he might be interested in, and other issues that had nothing to do with money. He chose schools at several different selectivity levels in several different parts of the country. His list was actually very well thought out – for a student from a family that can easily afford to pay full price for any college in the country.
His list turned out to be a disaster for a student in his financial situation. He was accepted to several of the schools, but the money didn’t work out. He didn’t get enough merit scholarship money or need-based financial aid from any of them. He is now doing his first two years at a community college, and the family realizes that they will have to take on substantial debt for him to be able to do his last two years at a four-year school in our state system.
This young man very strongly wanted to go away to college for all four years, rather than spending the first two years as a commuter. And he is grossly overqualified for the community college he now attends.
If the family had planned the student’s list with finances as the top consideration, it’s likely that this unfortunate situation could have been avoided.
@Lindagaf
“all parents” don’t lament when their kids don’t seem interested in STE subjects. I don’t. However, it would make certain decision points a lot easier when a student’s aptitude aligns closely with their interest or passion. That’s just not the case here. Maybe not the case “yet”.
Agree that this family will need merit aid. Apply to a mix of the hardest to get awards (Rice, Vanderbilt, USC, Davidson?), and then the next level (Tulane, Northeastern, BU, University of Miami, University of South Carolina), then the guaranteed National Merit award schools (University of Alabama, Arizona State, and others).
This summer, visit state flagship - they often offer merit on top of instate tuition to high stats kids. Pick a WUE school if you are eligible. Apply Early Admission (not binding) to a true financial safety.
Also, for a kid who doesn’t know what he wants, try local visits to colleges along these two dimensions: small-large, urban-rural (or suburban). Your son sounds like he would do well at a LAC (small, usually rural or suburban) and they have a harder time attracting boys, so that might work in his favor.
What is he doing this summer? Governor’s schools or camps are great ways to get a feel for a campus if your state offers that.
@Marian 's story is a powerful illustration on why it is important to start with the financial discussion.
@mamaedefamilia Thanks for the helpful thoughts. Some replies:
Scores are good, likely good enough to meet threshold, and grades should be fine, but given what we know of his “peers” who are a year ahead, Final National Merit Award winner is not likely in my opinion.
We are extremely familiar with ASU. I just want to note, as I said in my original post, basically the ONE factor he has expressed is a desire to go to a “small or medium” school. ASU certainly does not fit this criterion, whether Barrett or not. He will submit applications to ASU and University of Arizona regardless, and likely have favourable admission conditions at both. He would attend those before UNM.
I am familiar with the WUE reciprocations. It may be naive, but I am hoping for options a little more …targeted/challenging… than the typical WUE schools.
Understood. As stated above, there will be safeties, some known, some TBD. Want to make smart choices even with the safeties.
Spoke with my son last night, he assumes he will take 3 subject tests. I want to again note, on the topic of retaking the SAT - that was his statement not mine. As I mentioned, I think he wants the 800. Some people are like that.
My youngest applied to some of the schools you may be thinking about given your son’s stats. We had somewhat lower income and our out-of-pocket should be in the $25-$35,000 range if he attends. Yes, your son is a good candidate for admission to the “meets 100% of need” colleges, but no, you will not like the financial aid package they send to you.
Maybe I missed it, but does his school send class rank? A 3.9 and school does not rank would be more likely for competitive merit than a 3.9 and second quintile.
UA and ASU are both targets for high stats kids from WA looking to keep cost down, Utah and Montana for those with an outdoors bent.
@DavidPuddy These are the 2 factors that need to be reconciled:
And
While he has fabulous test scores, test scores simply get them over the threshold for consideration for merit at top schools. Test scores are not going to be the determining factor for extremely competitive scholarships like those at highly ranked schools. It is ECs that stand out that leads to those scholarships; ECs and interests the demonstrate leaderships skills that schools want and see in kids who they believe will be leaders in their collegiate community and in the world at large.
Lots of extremely advanced, bright students can’t afford to attend top schools, and no, test scores aren’t going to be all that is required to bridge the gap. Creating a realistic list of schools where he will succeed in getting merit should be a primary objective and then add in those Dream merit options.
Yeah, I know. I find it interesting several folks are alarmed that the “Private School Counselor has not suggested schools yet”. They have a very defined process and meet independently with the student and also together with parents. Several tools are involved, and Naviance is leveraged. We are just getting in to that time line now …
Kids want the 800. My kid retook a 790 on a subject test and got a 790 the second time too. I assume he’s not going to spend tons of time studying for it, so why no let him try, even though we know it is unlikely to make any difference at all, especially with the perfect ACT score.
I know he wants a smaller school, but he may find that the honors colleges at some schools will make the giant schools feel a little less giant.
Those with automatic admissions should be closely researched to find your DS’s "safety’ schools- a college where he will be admitted AND where you can afford to send him.
That is your starting line.
In addition, I strongly suggest he apply to USC [ Southern Calif] BEFORE their DEC 1 scholarship application deadline.
USC offers about 200 1/2 Tuition and 100 FULL tuition scholarships to a select group of applicants who meet their scholarship qualifications. The scholarships are equally spread across the various colleges at USC and require both outstanding academic requirements, AND intense interest in areas outside the classroom and a genuine interest in enrolling at USC. Applicants are evaluated Holistically- it is not a matter of those students with the highest scores/ gpa’s are the ones who will win.
admission.usc.edu/docs/Scholarships.pdf
Applying to USC early does NOT prevent him from applying EA or SCEA to other colleges, because of their scholarship consideration stipulation.
IF he is NOT one of the 1000 students elected for final scholarship consideration in Jan, your DS, IF he DOES advance to NMF status, which should be easy for him, AND he applies AND is accepted at USC, AND designatES USC as his first choice college by May 1, he WOULD receive a NM 1/2 tuition scholarship from USC, should he choose to enroll there.
USC also offers generous FA, but check the NPC to see what you would be required to pay, factoring in the 1/2 NMF tuition scholarship.
USC offers top students opportunities to take small Honors classes their Freshman and Sophomore years,
By the way, I am not sure if a distinction should be made, but his ACT score was a composite 36 as stated. I do think he got a 35 on one (I think) of the subjects, if that makes sense.
@DavidPuddy@menloparkmom’s post brings up another point that you need to understand. Many institutions that offer grant $$ will reduce need when they apply scholarships. Using the USC(Ali) example, say tuition is $50,000 and your need means they extend a grant offer of $30,000. A 1/2 tuition scholarship may end up simply replacing your grant and leaving you with a grant of $5000. Some schools will eliminate student contribution (not parental contribution) before reducing grant $$.
Many families schedule a spring break trip to visit colleges. The choice of which colleges to might need to change after the first meeting with the counselor, but it could be too late to modify travel plans.
