<p>Everything has its proper time. The time for discussions has passed. The time of application is NOT appropriate for discussion where to apply. It should have been done whole year ago (if not earlier). Application period: do everything on timely bassis, wait and see and make sure to ENJOY the ride. There is MUCH more at stake here than even few hundred thousands, even if you do not have them, money are extrememly important, but they are not priority #1. It is simply too late for all affordability discussions. I keep telling that to my friend, let’s see what happen to them, they have not talked to their kid either and are hoping for som miracles. Miracles do not happen, you have to create them. It is simply too late to create this miracle now. And who knows maybe it will work out in a better way than anticipated. All these affordability discussions at the absolutely wrong time will ruin that.</p>
<p>I am always amazed at the quality of good advice that our community provides on this site. </p>
<p>One more thought (or option) that may resonate with your daughter (regarding affordability of schools on her list). Teenagers dont always have realistic attainable goals, but that is what makes them great. (Ask any teenage boy what kind of car they are going to get, and it is almost always something that they cant afford, e.g. Ferrari, Corvette…) </p>
<p>You may want to try using anologies. We used a house analogy…it went something like this. “Sure we would love to have the huge home with 5+ Bedrooms, 4 car garage…, but we cant afford it. Even if someone was to give us loan (mortgage) for it we would be sacrificing our ability to provide a good quality of life for our family. How would you feel if we had the nice house but now we cant help you with your education? We want you to be able to provide for yourself, your future family and not be strapped down to payment that wont go away.”</p>
<p>I don’t want to turn this into an Alabama thread - but I’ll never forget my son saying, “I am NOT going to school in Alabama.” Fast forward a year and he is a very happy Bama freshman with no debt - who will likely come out of 4 years at Bama with a masters degree (fully covered under his scholarship).</p>
<p>^Well, we did not discuss the car at all. We just went and bought it and gave her a key right after she turned 16 and she loves it so much, still driving it 7 years later. I guess, our family is not too much into discussions, period. If any friction is predicted, there is an understanding that it might take very gradual process, that possibly would last for several years (another one was a potential major in UG, that talk started sometime in 7th grade, so there were no surprizes at all). However, car was not even close to be a topic of any discussion. Here is a car, enjoy. Frankly, affordability of college was never a discussion either, just small comments here and there over period of several years lead to certain understanding. Something like mentionning that certain great school that would definitely be on a list otherwise is very well known for poor Merit awards, if any. Comments like this create certain picture which gets settled in mind and gradually and subtly leads to correct decision without huge fights.</p>
<p>will add that uab has biomedical engineering (only one in the state)… 5 minute app, no essays. BUT if you can get her to consider would recommend doing it soon so she can get in for the deadline of sci/tech honors app. (short essay required for that and interview) this school would leave you with about 10k per year to pay after automatic merit. if interested in health related majors, really is a great school (just doesnt get a lot of attention on here) home of a top med school [UAB</a> - The University of Alabama at Birmingham](<a href=“http://www.uab.edu%5DUAB”>http://www.uab.edu)</p>
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<p>I thoroughly disagree with you. There are still plenty of merit aid option schools available with open application dates. The time to be talking IS now if it wasn’t done before. In another month or two it will be too late. If the schools one likes are not likely to be affordable, it seems ludicrous not to discuss other schools - and apply to them as financial safeties if nothing else.</p>
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<p>I’m glad you are able to do this. A good part of the country and our world are not able to do such things. We need to live within budgets that do not allow just going out and “buying a car.” The house analogy fits well. Getting strangled by debt because one refuses to face reality financially is a deep, deep pit that one can agonize in for years - far more than 4. It’s not good to simply listen to those who can afford cars/houses/schools and take their advice. It’s far better to consider ones own finances and the future with Plan A or Plan B. If Plan A comes with huge amounts of debt, Plan B is better even if it means tears.</p>
<p>There are many, many good schools out there. It’s a myth to think there is only one that will do and a degree from there should be obtained at all costs.</p>
<p>'There are still plenty of merit aid option schools available with open application dates. The time to be talking IS now if it wasn’t done before. In another month or two it will be too late. "
-I did not mean deadlines at all. I meant family situation. Application process is an action time, happy time, anticipation time, celebration time, discussions about affordability will ruin everything that application process is about. These discussions or subtle hint had to be done way before. You got to build a certain perception in kid’s mind. It takes time. If it was not done before, then kid has a perception that affordability is not an issue.
In regard to a car, as we were looking forward to free UG, paying for a car was very negligable in comparison, not even worth mentionning at all, the focus all along was on much more important things, and it did work as planned. Plan ahead and stay cool about things that fell thrugh the cracks, nobody is perfect, some stuff will not be taken care of, but everything has its time and place or more trouble will follow.</p>
<p>Miami, I know you don’t mean to sound insensitive to the OP’s plight but you do. OP is not experiencing an action time, a happy time a celebration time. OP posted because there is a genuine problem and is hoping for helpful suggestions. Telling him/her to be happy and to celebrate their D getting into a list of schools they cannot afford is insensitive.</p>
<p>OP- a hug to you. You are not the first parent- and surely not the last- to realize that the gap between your resources and the price tag is one which really can’t be bridged by some belt-tightening and by eliminating cable tv service for four years.</p>
<p>My only suggestion- hopefully a helpful one- is to encourage your D to make a list of what she loved about her “most loved” options, and then offer to help find schools which have some or a few of those qualities but which have a more affordable price tag. In this way you are validating her feelings that some schools are just easier to love than others (in her mind) and helping her assemble a list which won’t feel quite so much like a random set of “loser colleges” (I’m not implying that they are… just that I know teenagers often feel this way.)</p>
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<p>No they didn’t. I can name several students and families IRL who came to the grips with costs around now or even later. The intelligent ones search for alternatives (and almost always find them). There may, indeed, be uphappy times, but you know what? Their kids ended up just as happy (and come back telling us so) once they got to affordable U. Just because one path worked for your family doesn’t mean it has to be the same with everyone. </p>
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<p>And who knows? If the OP’s D ends up going to a place with free undergrad they may also contemplate a car at that point. It sure would be better than high debt loads - or are you offering to pay their debts for them since you are encouraging them to only consider schools not well-known for good aid due to some perceived “this is the way it should be” mentality?</p>
<p>We also had told our boys that we would pay half. We expected to be able to do so, then the economy hit when my oldest was a junior/senior in high school and those funds were lost. Fortunately, he was willing to consider nice merit aid schools and is quite happy where he is now as a junior. If he had been upset, so be it. Times change. Finances change. High debt is not the answer for a mythical dream. Reality bites sometimes, but such is life.</p>
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<p>I agree. Another hug from here. It hurts to have to change things for your kids, but it’s better than chaining them - and you - to years of debt. Few students who go to affordable U end up unhappy, esp those with nice stats to get into nice affordable Us. MANY with high debt end up unhappy. (Note: I said high debt, not no debt.)</p>
<p>I third the opinion that now IS the time. It’d be nice if the conversation had been had years ago but things have changed since then and a new reality needs to be dealt with…before deadlines pass. Other than ED/EA and a handful of merit schollys, deadlines haven’t passed yet. But over the next month or 4 options will diminish.</p>
<p>Having stress with a kid over apps is nice to avoid if possible but I’d take it in a instant over the stress of having zero affordable options in April.</p>
<p>This is definitely a time for discussion. When it’s too late is on April 1st when your daughter has acceptances to great schools, and she has to turn them down because you cannot afford them. (yes, in an ideal world, all these discussions would have happened in a year ago, but they never do).</p>
<p>We had a few picks that were parents choice, for one son it was Alabma and Ursinus. For another it was U of Maryland, and Pitt. I was looking for a good school, rolling admissions and merit aid. They didnt end up going there - but it was great to have early acceptance and merit money offered.</p>
<p>Have you really had money discussion with your daughter? Put it in writing what you can afford. Did you go over the fafsa with her when you submitted it, so she really understands the finances? Next april when you are looking at acceptances and packages, pull out your letter and remind her, here’s what we can pay.</p>
<p>fire- late to the conversation here. I completely sympathize with you. D is also a senior. We got our arms around the cost component last year and had the reality talk last year. Although we were earlier than you in the conversation, it was still difficult and caused tears on D’s part (and mine behind closed doors). </p>
<p>We too saw D’s college fund and our investments dwindle, and are only now digging out. That is life, and these lessons are certainly easier than the lessons my grandmother had to learn as a child of the depression. :)</p>
<p>Here is what I did to provide D with the data to help her to understand. I apologize if I am being too prescriptive but it really worked in helping her understand that I am not the problem or the bad guy. </p>
<ol>
<li>I did a thorough analysis of our finances and came up with a number we could give her each year for college. I did the math keeping in mind that I have a S two years behind her. I need to plan for two tuition payments. </li>
<li> Using D’s list of colleges, her stats, and data culled from the universities I estimated what she “could” be awarded in Merit. (Note- I added some colleges where I knew D would receive enough)</li>
<li> I used this to then show D what the total debt would be with each school.</li>
<li> Debt ranged from $0 to $100,000.<br></li>
<li> I then calculated what the monthly payment would be for each loan amount.<br></li>
<li> Then I put together a draft budget of what her life after school would look like. </li>
</ol>
<p>I framed the reality of high debt to her as this: In reality, high debt means you live with mom and dad after college- the budget does not work any other way. No big life adventure after school. It really comes down to what lifestyle do you want to live after school? How much fun do you plan to have? Vacations- not happening with debt. Moving to NYC- not happening wiht high debt. How much do you want to limit your options?</p>
<p>Life if a long trajectory- you do not want to use all your resources over 4 years. </p>
<p>For me- D still has a dream school she is applying to, but D also is mentally preparing herself for one of two financial safeties that she is beginning to love.</p>
<p>Nellieh, great post. We were always very transparent with our kids about money but even so, it astonished me that they didn’t understand how much stuff costs once they graduated. Each kid had their own moment of horror seeing that first paystub; the awful meeting with someone from HR explaining the optional vs. mandatory deductions, etc. And they knew intellectually how lucky they were to have good jobs, benefits, etc-- but that stuff isn’t “free” once it’s not the bank of Mom and Dad paying the $25 co-pay or making sure you see a dentist.</p>
<p>I saw my kids realize that the abstraction- a good annual salary-- becomes reality when it’s doled out in a monthly paycheck which gets whacked by taxes and health insurance. And to realize that on the one hand- how lucky! A good job! And on the other- where does the money go before you’ve even paid rent or bought a monthly subway pass. (none of my kids could afford cars, insurance, or parking for their first few years post grad. So public transportation- again- fantastic it’s there, but how humbling to realize that the working poor still have to scramble for a bus ticket when you get to buy a monthly pass.)</p>
<p>Sorry to ramble. Anything you can do to enhance your kids awareness of how much stuff costs is a good thing. What’s 100K in debt when it’s buying your dream school? And who wants to live with mom and dad and play gin rummy for entertainment while you spend 15 years paying off that debt?</p>
<p>Creekland,
"you offering to pay their debts for them since you are encouraging them to only consider schools not well-known for good aid "
-no, I am not offering to pay for anybody, including my own kid. Not sure where you got that. I am not encouraging anybody to apply to any list of schools, it is their personal decision. “Attacking me is not an agenda” here anyway. OP asked for advice. Mine was that application time is the time to enjoy and not to fight about school list. List should have been discussed / finalized way before. You have a different opinion, express yours, no reason to attack me for mine, it is not helpful for OP. Mine is based on my personal experience, yours will be based on yours. If we are all the same, there is no reason to have any forum to just express the same opinion over and over. OP is up to hear various opinions based on different backgrounds / situations.</p>
<p>Miami, reread the OP’s original post:</p>
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<p>Your saying “the list should have been discussed/finalized way before” is helpful? How?</p>
<p>I’d fully agree with your reasoning IF it were the parent of a sophomore or junior asking, but it isn’t. Your telling them they are past the point of no return is simply untrue and no better than the teacher telling them to take out high loans.</p>
<p>I have no problem with people expressing opinions. I have massive problems with people expressing opinions as facts, esp when they aren’t helpful nor true. </p>
<p>I’m seriously glad money isn’t an issue for your family and you are fortunate enough to pay tuition or buy cars or whatever. Not all of us are there and ANYONE trying to insist one needs to stick with high cost schools - and high debt - for some sort of mythical “right” way (that may be “right” for you, but is not the only way and CAN’T work in this scenario) needs to be called out. There are affordable schools for high stat students and they ARE still taking applications. In this case, the time for discussion to add a financial safety (or two) is NOW. It can’t be done a year ago.</p>
<p>I am in no way attacking “you.” I am very against your “advice” due to the high debt it may lead to when there ARE other options/paths. Your implication that “the time has passed” is, quite simply, wrong.</p>
<p>^“Attacking me is not an agenda”
"I am very against your “advice” due to the high debt it may lead " - My advice is based on my personal experince of having my own D. on FULL TUITION MERIT award. What else did you read in my (or most likely others’) posts I do not know. I have built a perception in my kid that there are plenty of schools where she could go for free or close to free. It took many years. All I am saying is that there is a time and place for everything. Application time is not a time to fight about college list. Again, it is my opinion, yours is defferent based on your personal experience. I am not having anything against yours, why you are so focused on mine? My kid still does not have any debt. We can only hope that it will continue this way, there is no quarantee in anything though as it will depend on conditions outside of our control. Yes, there are always certain factors that family cannot control. So, I say, stay cool, go with the flow and see what happens. It may end up better than anticipated, but fighting at this point can only lead to worse situation and absolutely nothing else, nothing positive will come out of it.</p>
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<p>We’ll just have to agree to disagree here, though I wouldn’t want to see “fighting” as much as a “matter of financial fact” discussion.</p>
<p>I’ve seen parents/students “find” affordable colleges late, go there, and do well. It can have a positive outcome for both the student and parents and is better than ending up in April without a financially affordable school and wondering, “what now” or giving into high parent plus loans.</p>
<p>Like you, I HOPE things turn out better than anticipated at “first choice” schools, but I find that probability to be rather doubtful given the original list and the EFC given.</p>
<p>^Again, as I mentioned, my D. went to her #2, not #1 and it also worked greatly to her benefit. Why? “Go with the flow” worked for her choosing her HS. Based on her previous experience, she decided to “go with the flow” for college. Result - the best possible fit. Too much worrying, too early in a process, stay cool, wait, see all that is offerred, choose and keep in mind that #1 might not be the wisest choice all around, not only for financial consideration. All along, try to enjoy as much as possible, memories of this process are priceless in our family, filled with lots of pretty comic situations and definitely getting closer to each other, not torn apart, just overall great times, and that is how it should be.</p>
<p>^^^ Are you missing the point that, unlike your D, the OP’s D does not appear to have any schools on the original list (1st, 2nd, or otherwise) that are likely to fit their circumstances financially and they are not able to otherwise afford the schools without excessive loans?</p>
<p>To many of us on this thread, that’s WHY they need to discuss adding a couple of others. None of us are telling them to kill the first list (one never knows what may happen) - just to add a couple of wise financial choices to it so they have a true safety school.</p>
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<p>That’s the key IMO. Keep the schools OP’s D wants, but add 1-2 more than are definitely affordable. Then sort it out in April. Doing that would put OP’s D in the same situation Miami’s D was in - a #1 and a free (or affordable) #2. Right now OP has NO #2.</p>
<p>And it is not too late to add one.</p>