<p>"Since I agree with everyone else, I think there is a pretty clear consensus, too. The only thing in the original list that people object to -- and I think everyone has either objected to it or failed to address it -- is applying to nursing school as a strategy to transfer to engineering school. That was discussed in another thread recently. I doubt it works all that often -- people can usually smell a fraud. But I agree that it's unethical, whether or not it's effective, unless the student honestly intends to give nursing a fair trial."</p>
<p>Even this didn't bother me that much as I doubt they would be able to transfer to the harder school unless they had proved themselves and there were room. I think it's a very risky strategy. </p>
<p>I think being in ECs you don't enjoy is probably punishment enough.</p>
<p>I'm with others on the AA issue. It doesn't seem fair, but OTOH if there were a "recent immigrant" box they'd probably get the exact same extra diversity points anyway - so it doesn't bother me.</p>
<p>And my list of truly unethical is the same - lying about involvement in ECs, lying about disciplinary actions, cheating, getting someone else to write (not proofread or comment on) your essays.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>...take advantage of URM status when one has not actually experienced the hardships that the special consideration for such individuals is intended to offset? (For example, is it unethical for wealthy recent immigrants from Africa or South America to check the African-American or Hispanic boxes on application forms, respectively?)>></p>
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<p>marite considered this a hard one and so do I. Certainly it is not unethical for a URM with an affluent upbringing to note that URM status on his college applications, though he could choose to leave it blank.</p>
<p>Rather I see the colleges wading into murky ethical waters in this area. I believe that any URM admission preferences should be reserved for those students coming from disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds, first generation immigrant families, or as a first generation college student. I just do not see how a college can admit a child of a Colin Powell, a Jerry Yang or a Mark Cuban and honestly claim that these students would contribute to diversity in a meaningful way. A dirt poor white girl from Albers Holler, WVa would contribute far more diversity that would the URM children raised in upper middle class America.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I believe that any URM admission preferences should be reserved for those students coming from disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds, first generation immigrant families, or as a first generation college student.
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</p>
<p>Everyone of us has different opinion about how much taxes one should pay. Yet, laws are passed to set the rules, and our individual interpretations do not matter AT ALL. At this time, Affirmative Action laws related to college admissions do not segregate recipients by socio-economic status; thus, such distinction is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the question raised in this thread. </p>
<p>For the record, I happen to believe that SES factors should be part of the analysis. However, we have NO indication that the schools are in fact ignoring such factors. One of the most egregious behavior is implying that everyone who is a minority DID benefit from his or her status. We automatically ASSUME that the children of XXX --any scion of a prominent or wealthy minority--did receive a boost because of their race. However, do we know anything about their files? Nope! Are we not supposed to trust the messages of the admission offciers that they evaluate the candidates holistically, and pay close attention to their REAL peers? Don't they have enough experience to separate a student from Greenwich, CT from one from Flint, Michigan? </p>
<p>In the end, the decision and interpretaion rest with the schools.</p>
<p>originaloog: Way back when, I went to school with URMs who had upper middle class parents and those who didn't. I disagree strongly that the children of well-to-do minority families do not contribute to diversity in a meaningful way. I also believe that most colleges that practice AA would, de facto, give a similar kind of advantage to a "dirt poor white girl from Albers Holler WV". Of course, I would be upset if the ONLY URMs a school admitted came out of Andover or Exeter, just as I would be upset if the only poor students admitted were white and female. I don't think that happens, though.</p>
<p>(Who you are talking about is one of my friends: Double-professional African-American family, parents have five higher ed degrees between them, four of them from HYPS. Smart, well-educated kids. College admission season has not been anxiety-provoking for them. But if anyone thinks it doesn't matter a lot in their lives that they are African-American, that person has another think coming. One of the things the kids have to offer, by the way, is their relative comfort navigating between "black" and "white" worlds, and thus potentially bridging a gap for kids from more segregated backgrounds.)</p>
<p>A few more ethical no-nos:</p>
<p>Applying to a school as a recruited athlete without intending to participate in athletics there. Seen this happen a few times.</p>
<p>Recruiting kids into athletic programs in which, as a practical matter, the athletes cannot receive educational benefits equivalent to those received by other students. Colleges do this.</p>
<p>I want to clarify the mention about URM in my post. What I was referring to was those who use the essay to kind of stretch the truth...in other words, if you live in California and you have a spanish sounding last name but both your parents are white/born in this country/their parents were also/etc. ...your parents retired early on a decent income and set up on a small "ranch". Then in your essay you talk about your rural lifestyle/ranch etc. The adcoms may have a very different picture of who you are then who you really are. That is very different than what the other posters are talking about...I definitely agree re: minorities bringing diversity regardless of socioeconomics...that isn't really what I was talking about anyway..I was talking about really stretching the truth in your essay.</p>
<p>I think the problem is that they're not so much unethical as...I don't know...unfair maybe? I feel like college admissions is this whole elaborate game of making yourself look as impressive and unique as possible, and no one ever told me the rules. You get an application with a list of qualifications that don't necessarily define who that person is, they just define who that person thinks the prestigious schools would like them to be so that they can go there.</p>
<p>For instance, the people that were above me in class rank in high school were there not because they actually got more As than me, but because they took more AP classes. They all take AP history because it'll tack an extra one point onto their gpa. I didn't take AP history because, frankly, I don't find memorizing a bunch of dates and generals' names to be terribly interesting and I'd rather take art class and develop the artistic skills I'll need later on in college and the rest of my life. A college admissions officer looks at both applications and thinks that I'm less smart and a bit of a slacker, and the other person is much smarter, much more motivated, much more academic, etc. That's not necessarily true. And, silly me, my decisions made perfect sense to me at the time and no one ever bothered to tell me they would not make sense to colleges.</p>
<p>ah BlahDeBlah but there's the rub...are those who took AP solely because it looked good to colleges going to enjoy that high stress college when they get there? And did they enjoy the fact that high school was a major grind of remembering dats and generals' names? Maybe not...maybe...so to follow the Shakespeare thread "to thine own self be true". Do what you want, take the stuff that you wanted to take and be happy with wherever you end up...and, dare I say it, some students even go to community college and are happy while there and successful when they graduate...</p>
<p>Actually the 'rub' in this case is that I did not get into my first choice school even though I probably could have if I'd known what on earth I was doing, and I hate the school that I'm at and I'm stuck here because it's too late to transfer. Most of the people at my high school were only there because it's illegal not to be, and for once I wanted to be in an enviroment where people actually want to learn things instead of viewing it as something they're forced to do...and here I am where half the students in my classes don't even bother to come to class anymore because they don't care about the class, they know that at least they'll pass, and they'd rather stay at work and make money so they can buy more booze for this weekend.</p>
<p>But I digress. Maybe we can discuss whether it's unethical for schools to have guidance counselors that do not offer any actual guidance.</p>
<p>* Maybe we can discuss whether it's unethical for schools to have guidance counselors that do not offer any actual guidance.*</p>
<p>or with high school graduates- graduating without knowing how to read/do math at a high school level- and instead of evaluating the instruction/curriculum, the burden is placed on the student to pass a test as mandated by NCLB</p>
<p>I don't think any of the items on the OP's list are unethical. I usually agree with Curmudgeon, but I don't think transfering to a high school just to be top 10% is unethical either. There are downsides to this transfer that can exceed the upsides, and if it is so danged important to raise your class rank, go right on ahead and leave your classmates, settle for less difficult classes and all the other issues in such a school. Also, if you are applying to the very top colleges, the split transcript is often a give away especially if you are coming from a known highschool to one that is clearly not in that league. This strategy has gotten a lot of publicity because of one independent college counselor who recommended this, among other things for one of his clients who then got into Harvard (I believe). She may well have gotten in anyways.
To take courses when you don't want them, to participate in activities you hate, really puts you on a journey of unpleasantness. Though such strategies may work, there is a risk; they often don't. Kids who are in most activities, even those at the pinnacle of those ECs do not get into top schools even when this augments an excellent academic profile. Most activities that will catch a selective college adcom's eye are ones that require long periods of training, commitment, and a love for the activity. Rare is the person who is that good at those things and just going by rote. And such a talented person is wasting is wonderful skills on something he does not like, when there are likely enjoyable activities where he could excell.<br>
Usually, it is pretty clear what is ethical and what is not. Lying, cheating, forging are all unethical. There are gray areas;; how much help on an essay is ethical, is it ethical to sidestep or justify an answer to a question. I have issues with schools that have certain quotas in application allowed or other limitations, such as only one EA school permitted. Those issues among others are debated and argued, and depending on the situation can be ethical or not.
As for how ethical it is for any organization to have employees who do not do their jobs the way they should, it is an unfortunate fact that it happens all of the time. I don't think it is unethical as much as unfortuate but that can be debated. I think it is unethical for unions to make it difficult to fire teachers/members who are clearly not doing their jobs, but again that is not a straightforward issue. The definition of competence is often at issue.</p>
<p>...paying a medical "professional" to give a false diagnosis of learning disability so that the student can take the SAT and other standardized tests untimed, giving that person an unfair advantage.</p>
<p>That, again, could be a gray area since definitions of learning disabilities can differ. Unethical is taking a prescription drug not prescribed for you, or illegal substance while taking tests. Ethical is a prophylactic aspirin or tums. It does start getting gray in areas though.</p>
<p>I think there are two areas involving college admissions where there are risks of unethical behavior. First, there are risks with the listing of activities. It is fair to present a complete and favorable list. It is also easy to embellish. If a student is the junior member of a 3-person math club and lists a position of secretary, is that misleading? I suspect there are many cases where the impressive lists of activities and the time commitments go beyond reality. Second and more important, the essays can be a major risk. An essay can be pure fiction, designed to create a good impression, but with no basis in reality. Then there is the issue of who actually wrote the essay. Some students probably get little or no help; others, have their essays written for them. I guess I understand the reasons, but it seems to me that adcoms should reconsider the importance of essays.</p>
<p>I don't consider any of the OP's items as unethical. I think the real litmus test of ethical/unethical in this context is - "is it true?". Some examples of commonly occuring unethical practices:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Stating ECs that weren't actually performed.</p></li>
<li><p>Stating officer positions in clubs that weren't held.</p></li>
<li><p>Inflating the hours for ECs by either just lying about them or doing things such as counting the hours as 'double time' if the volunteer activity was done on a Sunday (I know some students who did this and it irked me).</p></li>
<li><p>Campaigning to be an officer in a club strictly for the purpose of the college app and then not actually participating in the club throughout the year. I've seen a number of HS seniors do this to the detriment of the club - often a charitable club that ends up doing nothing charitable due to the absent officers. These people should be ashamed of themselves. Actually, I'd like to see a rule not allowing seniors to be officers in HS clubs.</p></li>
</ul>