<p>Last week I took D. to CMU to look at their MT program. While the music school seemed to have many merit/academic scholarships the drama/MT department only had 3 to mention.(1 full and two 1/2 tutition). This was told to me by the admissions office. Obviously some colleges have more scholarships to offer than others. Does anyone have any information about merit/academic scholarships that could help narrow down the college search? Thanks, Chelle</p>
<p>That is a very, very broad question. The best place to start is the financial aid web page for colleges you are interested in. In general, that page will tell you about merit/academic grants for the school itself. That is probably where the bulk of your (non-loan, non need-based) aid will come and should be fairly readily available. It may also tell you whether those grants are "stackable" (can be combined) and whether they are stackable up to tuition or can also cover housing/board/books, etc.</p>
<p>Departmental talent grants are something that tend to be more fluid and more closely held but they will sometimes tell you if asked. Departmental grants may also be stackable or limited. In some schools the dept may wait and let the school max out any academic grants before they decide what they want to offer...that allows the departmental money to go farther. Some schools will give "free rides" to national merit finalists, some only if the finalist lists the school as "first choice." Many of the top schools don't do much special for national merit...if they already have their pick of top students and don't have trouble attracting kids why bother with a subsidy?</p>
<p>I can tell you a bit about the three schools we looked at. OCU has school-wide academic grants based on a grid of GPA and ACT/SAT that tops out at $10k annually this year. That's a bit over one semester's tuition. It is stackable with dept grants but it's my understanding the two cannot exceed annual tuition. As I understand their policy they don't do much granting to cover housing/board.</p>
<p>Elon has a handful of school-wide academic free rides. They also have a presidential scholarship based on GPA/ACT/SAT. It tops out at around $3-$4,000 annually. Not sure on the talent side, although I know they do have them.</p>
<p>Belmont (Nashville) has an academic grant that also tops out at around $10k with coverage similar to OCU. They have departmental grants but don't necessarily like to stack. Also, if you are trying for anything in the music school (ie MT) they won't even let you complete your application process until you have auditioned and passed that hurdle. This means that if you can't audition until Jan/Feb you miss the Dec deadline to be considered for their "free ride" scholarships. Ouch!</p>
<p>All of this changes from year to year as schools adjust their tuition, improve their endowments, etc. Best to figure out which schools you want to home in on and then research them directly</p>
<p>What a change for CMU! If you look at their catalogues or talk to grads from as recently as the past 4-5 years, the school's policy was, "if you were admitted, they would find a way to cover whatever was needed to cover the gaps in funding". That is part of what made them so special and helped to attract the finest talent out there. Their summer program has also changed in that two years ago, the program was no cost, you just had to pay living expenses. Now, they are actively recruiting a totally different demographic for the " full ride" while everyone else is expected to come up with the astounding amount they now charge. Does anyone have any idea as to why the "about face" occured there? I was just talking to a 90's grad from CMU and he had no idea what drove the school to make such a radical change, but he did cut off the donations he had been pledging to the college as he was not pleased with the sudden 180 degree turn in policy. One can only wonder what the long-term effect of this will have on the students that manage to attend. They turned down the senior class Valedectorian of my D's prep school( highest honors for 4 years in AP and Honors courses) who is a tremendous comedic actress with a great voice after just hearing her sample tape; they did offer her admission as an English major. She chose NYU.</p>
<p>that's pretty shocking info re: CMU! </p>
<p>In my (wholly non-scientific) investigations two years ago it seemed that many of the mid-range private universities we were looking at, offered up to 1/2 tuition merit/academic scholarships for above average grades/test scores and a few full tuition ones for those really top stats. State universities, not so good (unless it was your own state and you qualified for resident tuition). Talent scholarships? Didn't seem to be as much $ available and then there's that old double standard again: one dept. chair told us that unfortunately she couldn't offer the very limited funds she had to the girls, as she had so many talented girls to choose from -- she needed to save the scholarship $ to attract guys to the program. Oy!</p>
<p>Don't shoot the messenger (and keep up those academics, girls!) :(</p>
<p>Lulu'sMomma, unfortunately, colleges and universities such as CMU (and Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Johns Hopkins) have dozens and dozens of valedictorians who graduate with top honors in the toughest courses apply for admission. An article in the New York Times in the past month actually pinpointed the number of kids who earned 2400 on their SATs who did not get into highly selective colleges and universities. Someone here or elsewhere noted that Harvard has a 9% acceptance rate, which is teensy, but large enough when you compare it with the 3-4% of kids accepted to the most prestigious musical theater programs. So, as everyone here keeps saying, the odds of admission are small. I am, however, curious as to why your D's classmate sent CMU a tape. Was she unable to audition on campus?</p>
<p>Well,BIGismama, that is Title IX turned around on us,isn't it? The one place where there are more girls and that is the spot they hold the $$ for the guys. I have 2 sons and a daughter (SHE is the performer), but somehow, it always comes around to them finding a way to short change the girls.......</p>
<p>NotMamaRose, I should have asked you about this in the first place as you always are right on top of things, which we appreciate! Yes, they could have gone there but the girl's mother was told that they (CMU) required a "pre-screening" tape/CD first and if they wanted to hear her then they would invite her to the school to be heard.Since I don't want to pout through their web site right now, is that not the case there?They don't "screen" the singers first in either vocal performance or MT ( I'm not exactly sure which one she went for)? Fill me in please (and thank you in advance!)</p>
<p>For MT at CMU, there is NO prescreening. Anyone who applies to the BFA in Acting or MT may audition. CMU auditions 1200 candidates for their BFA programs in Drama/MT. They take 10 for MT and 18 for Acting. They take more boys than girls.</p>
<p>Vocal Performance majors must go through a pre screening before being given the opportunity for a live audition.</p>
<p>For the purposes of this discussion, I believe the question has to do with MT BFA programs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification on CMU, soozievt, now it makes sense. Appreciate it!</p>
<p>It strikes me that it IS a Title IX issue when grants are given to males rather than females so that schools can cast productions of works performed which are mostly written by males...plots of war and kings and cowhands will inevitably require more males than females. Major universities staff their opera programs in this way.....discrimination??? I would like to see a spread sheet of financial aid in opera departments which shows the male and female aid funding levels.</p>
<p>lorelei2702 , I was kidding- just trying to add some levity as we all tend to get too serious around here as we are so focused on the $$ end of things.
Also, I have 2 boys and 1 girl so I have always been able to see both sides of things.
I'm not sure exactly if Title IX would apply as there are schools that do rather odd casting (didn't BOCO use males in traditionally female roles and girls in the male roles in a production last year?). It's all in how you look at things, but I'd like to see the spreadsheets too as you are correct when you say that the works were, for the most part, written by males and the usual plots require more men than women. As I said in another section on these boards, if we wanted an exact science, we would have pointed our kids towards track or ski racing!</p>
<p>Before you get too excited about ski racing, LOL, it gets rather difficult when it comes to odds because results can, and often do, come down to a hundredth of a second. My D, a college ski racer, got to go to National Championships this year over a close pal and teammate who had been neck in neck with her all season as far as "results" and at times, I'm talking a hundredth of a second. You can't tell me my D was better than the other girl. She is not. While my D was thrilled to be selected, she felt terribly for the equally qualified teammate, who was a senior no less (my D is a junior). </p>
<p>While ski racing may be a timed event, all sorts of things come into play such as the conditions of the course when it is your turn to have your race run, etc. </p>
<p>My MT kid was a ski racer for years too. </p>
<p>Further, as NMR mentions, for those who enter highly selective college admissions (academic colleges, not MT ones), one can be extremely qualified (valedictorian, perfect GPA, very high SATs, and so on) and still be rejected. It is not a commentary on not being qualified. It is what it is. And so are BFA admissions for even the most talented MT kids. Low admit rates are what they are and applicants must plan their lists accordingly.</p>
<p>Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program.</p>
<p>soozievt- my eldest also was a ski racer after switched from figure skaing (talk about subjective!!!), so I was just using it as a sport that was, in the end, based on "time", even if it was down to 100ths of a second, as opposed to the opinions of humans!
I do have a question for you since I know that you are a counselor- I don't know where you work or what majors are included, but did you notice a general "belt tightening" in the acceptance of arts majors this year? That has definitely been the case around here, where exceptionally well qualified applicants weren't even wait-listed at schools where, in one case, her school vocal director had attended! Several of us have been following the trends (I just stopped teaching within the last 2 years) and it definitely seems as if something has caused the shift- is it because the funds are being allocated towards the mathematics and science departments or are there just more kids auditioning than there used to be?My D's school is very well respected and always leads the county in the # of graduates going on to college and the amount of scholarship money being awarded, yet even those girls are being turned away this year. I'd be very interested to hear your take on the situation and if you see this as a temporary "blip" or a trend overall. Thanks- and oh, congratulations to your daughter on making it to Nationals!</p>
<p>I read somewhere that there currently are more women in college than there are men, and more women applying to colleges. This apparently results in boys having a slight edge at some schools, because schools want to keep the gender balance around 50-50, or close to it. (I am NOT talking about MT here. I am talking about regular old college admissions, done by submitting paper applications, transcripts, grades, essays, etc.)</p>
<p>NMR...that is true and I've seen numerous articles that expect that trend to increase and continue over the next several years. It's a strong enough demographic wave that I'm not sure schools will be able to do a lot to keep it balanced.</p>
<p>Just a note - my son got a nice scholarship at CMU drama. It seems their "presidential" scholarships offer quite a bit of flexibility. CMU is also one of the only colleges that says right on its admission letter that it is willing to negotiate if you get a scholarship from another private college.</p>
<p>For BFA in MT applicants, I don't think it was necessarily more difficult to be admitted this year. </p>
<p>Generally speaking, with college admissions (not BFA in MT), it is very very tough odds at schools that are highly selective, no matter how well qualified the candidate. For instance, at regular colleges with acceptance rates below 20%, they must turn away many qualified candidates and could fill their class a second time over with students as "good" as the original accepted class. For anyone entering elite college admissions, who HAS the requisite qualifications, the schools in this category are considered a REACH for anyone, in terms of their chances. For some it may be a reach in terms of qualifications as well. But for qualified candidates, schools with low admit rates must be considered a reach given the odds. The same goes for BFA in MT admissions, an even tougher nut to crack, as the admit rate at most programs hovers between 2-10% odds, and there is a subjective element as well (auditions). For those who truly are appropriate and competitive candidates, these schools are to be considered reaches. For those without top qualfications or talent/skill, it is even more of a reach. It is essential that students build the right list that is appropriate for them and be very very realistic about the odds. </p>
<p>Overall, today there are more students applying to college (baby boom statistics, demographics) and so the rate of admission is tougher than a few years back. As well, and again speaking of college admissions in general (not just BFA programs), the common application has made it so that many are applying to MORE schools because it is easier to do so. This, in turn, makes the admit rate go down at schools. Further, since the odds of being admitted to the most selective colleges has gotten so tough, it trickles down to the next "tier" of colleges and so very very qualified applicants who get denied at the top schools, are then attending schools the next group down in selectivity, making those schools more competitive to get into (raising the bar). I mean this for college admissions overall. However, it likely applies to BFA programs as well. There are just a finite number of BFA in MT programs. There are many seniors with this interest. People are applying to more and more programs. However, the admit rate has been low at these programs for quite a few years already. This is not that new right now. </p>
<p>I am not at all surprised that you know very talented kids who were rejected at top programs. One can have every single qualification necessary and still not be admitted to a particular program. However, usually top candidates WILL get admitted SOMEwhere. Again, the list must be balanced and appropriate to one's qualifications and realistic in terms of the odds involved for anyone, really. It is not enough to say, "I want MT, and here is a list of schools that offer it." It does not work that way. Even in regular college admissions, one can't say, "I want to attend Harvard and so I will apply." One ought not to apply to Harvard unless the are in range with the stats and achievements of accepted students to that school, in the first place. And, even THEN, if they are in range, it is still a reach in terms of odds of admission. But I can't tell you how many students shoot unrealistically when it comes to regular colleges and when it comes to BFA programs, as well, and simply pick out schools which they "like." So, already, that can be problematic. </p>
<p>If one is going to enter a highly selective admissions process, one must be realistic of the odds. It doesn't shock me one bit to see a highly qualified candidate rejected at some of these BFAs. The only surprise would be if such a candidate was closed out of all their programs for which they were truly qualified. If someone is totally closed out of ALL colleges on their list, then I believe usually that means that the list was not entirely realistic or well balanced. </p>
<p>I realize you are saying you know top kids in your region who had a tough time with performing arts admissions. Please remember that there are many such "regions" around the country, each with top talented kids who stand out, and all these kids are competing for these limited slots. I know that when my own kid applied to BFA programs, I would think of all the kids whom I personally knew who were also applying who were also very talented (she knew scores of such kids from her summer theater camp) and I would think to myself, add up all the kids from many other summer theater intensives, all the kids coming out of performing arts high schools (we don't have those here but apparently there are lots of them around the country) and all the other standouts in all sorts of communities and that is a lot of very talented kids, ya know? </p>
<p>Anyway, I did not see any belt tightening in college arts program admissions. I see about the same number being admitted to these BFA in MT programs as a few years ago. High numbers applied then and still do. Perhaps more are applying to college in general and thus as well to BFA programs. But these schools are taking the number they did before. If anything, there are more new MT programs being created and thus more slots and options than before. </p>
<p>By the way, the fact that one girl's school vocal director had attended the college where the student applied is of very little significance when talking of BFA or other audition based programs OR elite (highly selective) college admissions. I know PLENTY of kids who had the stats for elite colleges where they were legacies and they still did not get admitted. My own kids understood the odds going into the selective college admissions process and thus, did not expect each school to come through....not because they thought they were not qualified (as I do believe they were qualified to get into any of the schools on their lists) but because they were very very very cognizant of the reality of admissions to schools with very low admit rates. They did not take any rejections at such low admit rate colleges or programs personally or as a commentary on their qualifications. Their lists were appropriate for THEM and they luckily got into the majority of their schools and had a choice, including some of their first choices. Again, the list of colleges must be appropriate for the candidate and then the candidate must be realistic about the odds of these low admit rate schools or programs and consider them to be reaches, even if they have what it takes to get in. </p>
<p>I have seen countless examples that show how a lot of this comes down to odds IF you even have the qualifications.....Examples: someone at U of Mich who was rejected at Penn State and Emerson, someone at U of Mich who was rejected at Syracuse, someone at CCM who was rejected at Syracuse, someone at Tisch who was rejected at Emerson, someone at CMU who was rejected at Tisch, etc. etc. etc. As far as regular applicants, someone accepted to Yale but rejected at Brown, and so on. </p>
<p>I didn't realize you have ski racers in your family. Both mine grew up ski racing and one still does. They have both done figure skating but no longer. I understood what you meant about ski racing and time, rather than subjectivity and agree with tha,t but was half joking that it is also so "chancy" with the results in ski racing very often coming down to hundredths of a second! </p>
<p>There are many fine colleges out there and if people were willing to look beyond the "name" schools, there is a place for everyone to get an education and to pursue their interests. Only certain schools have very low admit rates but there are many other great schools. Also, a BFA is not the end all and be all and one can pursue a life in theater through other paths.</p>
<p>As far as the scholarships go, it varies from student to student and so it would be hard to know ahead of time which school will offer you what scholarship. If you apply for financial aid and the school meets full need, then you can calculate the expected family contribution. At all the schools my kid got into for a BFA in MT, she got some scholarship and thus I would consider applying to any of them and weighing the offers. However, sometimes the state universities have less to give in terms of merit/talent scholarships (I saw this a bit with Penn State and U of Michigan). But you can't gauge it by someone else's offers. For example, I have met many who have said that they didn't get too big of a scholarship from NYU. However, in my own child's case, NYU's scholarship was the largest of all her BFA scholarships by a lot and if I had gone by what others experienced and based a decision on that, it would have not been accurate. </p>
<p>CMU, since that is being discussed here, offered a nice package including scholarship. Since BFA admissions involves tough odds, it is good to apply to many and see what happens with the acceptances and then weigh one's options at that juncture. I don't think one can afford to be very very picky about which schools they want the very most or they think will offer the best scholarship at the outset because it will come down to where they are admitted and THEN they can figure out which school is more preferable and also which offers the best scholarship (if that factor matters). You can only pick and choose just so much in fall of senior year. The choices are not fully in your hands until you get the results. Explore widely. If you are lucky enough to be given options in spring, then narrow it to the schools that most closely resemble what you are looking for. I mean this with regard to the very selective BFA schools, not as much to regular college admissions where there are hundreds of schools to pick from.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the useful insight, Soozievt. I just e-mailed you so that we can get this thread back on track!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the comments on scholarships. I had planned on letting my D. apply to 6 or 7 MT programs and compare the scholarship packages for the ones she gets accepted to. (Hopefully). I was just very surprised when CMU came right out and said they only had 3 available for the whole drama department. My d. also has a very hgh GPA and academic record. So I asked about an academic scholarship and again they said there are none for the drama department. I have more faith in my D's ability to get into the selective colleges than I have in my ability to pay the tuition. I just don't want her to get accepted and then have to turn it down due to finances.</p>