<p>when I say small LAC's I mean almost little ivies like Davidson, Haverford, Swarthmore, etc.</p>
<p>Do any of these have exceptionally good Music Programs w/ world renowned choirs, acappella groups, chorus etc.?</p>
<p>We researched this VERY extensively. There are 3 I can highly recommend:</p>
<p>-- Williams - a terrific music department. Very strong on composition (three composers). Two symphony orchestras, one of which (the Berkshire Symphony) is semi-professional. Also a chamber symphony, and lots of other groups. 11 a capella groups at last count, and a large college chorus. Really first class.</p>
<p>-- Smith - my d. chose it over Williams, but for specific reasons. The voice faculty is headed by a world-class singer. They have set up a new 5-college opera program (something unavailable at Williams). The department is slightly larger than at Williams. They have a five-college early music program, with two separate choirs (one all women, one mixed voices), and lots of baroque chamber groups, etc. A largish symphony with a fine conductor (not as good as the Berkshire Symphony by any means.) The symphony and choir are performing Beethoven's 9th at Carnegie Hall in May. Both travel quite a bit, to Europe, etc. 9 a cappella groups - all women, of course.</p>
<p>Bard - great music department - bigger than the other two, even though the college is smaller. The President of the college is a renowned conductor and music scholar. There is a new conservatory program, with voice department headed by Dawn Upshaw (it's hard to beat that!) Head of composition is Joan Tower, probably the nation's best known female composer. Lots of interesting musical opportunities, though choir, symphony, a capella, etc. definitely less than the other two.</p>
<p>We also kicked the tires or at least measured the faculty and available opportunities at Mount Holyoke, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wellesley, Amherst (fine stuff there! just less of it), Bowdoin, and Vassar (another excellent choice!), but they are not up to what we found at the three above.</p>
<p>Would you consider Oberlin?</p>
<p>It's not on the east coast. (Oberlin is, we discovered, rather a mixed bag for the non-music major, or more accurately, non-Conservatory student.)</p>
<p>Wesleyan would match your description, but their specialty seems to be world music and your question cited performance opportunities. LACs with music performance B.Mus. degrees are really unusual. Two on the east coast are Bucknell and Furman - not quite the "little Ivy" calibre, but perhaps good compromises between quality LACs and the type of pre-professional music programs typically found at much larger schools.</p>
<p>Colgate has a fantastic chamber music program, if that's what you're interested in. The department itself is pretty good too.</p>
<p>Mini: I'm not sure it is "far enough east" for the OP anyway, but I would be interested in reading an elaboration of your "mixed bag" comment. This actually may be relevant to another CC thread, someplace.</p>
<p>My own daughter is there now, is getting free private lessons from a Conservatory student. Next year she hopes to participate in one of the several "community" ensembles they sponsor for non-conservatory students. Another poster on this other thread has mentioned a strings orchestra for non-con students. There are obviously more music-related courses there than most other places, and I believe many are open to qualified non-con students. There are a good number of dual degree students.</p>
<p>What did you find "mixed" about the bag? Superficially it looks OK to me. But then my d's needs may be different than others.</p>
<p>Not arguing, by the way, just wondering.</p>
<p>What about a focus on music theory? My daughter enjoys performing and is interested in such opportunities, but her main interest involves music theory (including as it relates to math).</p>
<p>My d. is a composer, but specifically wanted a liberal arts ed. We found from talking to students who attended that folks over at the liberal arts side got last shot at courses, especially at the higher levels, and were often shut out from them. (We even heard of - but didn't meet - a composition student music major on the liberal arts side shut out of two courses she needed to graduate.)</p>
<p>Now, mind you, these sorts of things can happen anywhere (and do!), and I know so many happy Oberlin grads, I hardly know where to begin! My d., however, wanted a liberal arts degree, where she was likely to get good opportunity to travel, and her composition studies would be the center of the faculty's attention, not on the periphery, which is the sense we got.</p>
<p>Nceph - you won't go wrong with the list above - and add Oberlin! (if east coast isn't an issue.)</p>
<p>But, you know, for 98% of students, that's probably cutting it much too fine. Oberlin is a fantastic place (not on the east coast ;)), and there are far more important considerations that play into any one student's decisions.</p>
<p>Staying on the east coast isn't necessarily an issue for us, but the problem of competing with conservatory students for spots in classes is, so we're not sure about Oberlin for that reason. My D is definitely interested in getting a liberal arts degree and will probably not even major in music. Of the other schools you (Mini) mentioned you had investigated, Swarthmore is the only other one that seems to hold some interest for her. Do you have any other thoughts on the Swarthmore department, other than its being quite small? </p>
<p>We're also looking at Brown, MIT and UNC (not LACs, I know), and I would love to know people's thoughts on those schools' music programs as well.</p>
<p>Adding to nceph's last post, my D was looking at Brown, which would be a great fit in many liberal arts-related ways. She wants to go on to a Masters program in voice performance however, and it would appear from the Brown website that there is no music performance component of the music curriculum there. If I'm mistaken about that, or if there are alternative means to a similar end, I'd like to know.</p>
<p>Gerald Levinson at Swarthmore is a famous guy, and it would be a great treat for many folks to study with him. The department is very, very small, with several of the core offerings taught by part-time or visiting faculty (and there aren't that many offerings to begin with.) Non-music majors, however, might find it sufficient.</p>
<p>Brown's department is not large (slightly smaller than Smith and Bard). Good people though, and most famous for computer music. I do know folks who have enjoyed their private performance studies there. </p>
<p>MIT is a real sleeper, and GREAT! Pulitzer Prize-winning composer John Harbison teaches many of the freshman courses, and folks regularly come over from Harvard to study there. They have many great faculty, really lots of first-class stuff!</p>
<p>Gadad - for what it's worth, Smith's vocal department is headed by Jane Bryden, a very well-known singer, who has sung in several Peter Sellars' operatic stagings.</p>
<p>Have you considered a dual-degree at the Eastman School of Music at the U of Rochester? You would have to be accepted at Eastman as a performance or composition major and also at the U of Rochester department. You would receive two bachelors degrees. I believe there is an option with lower music credit hour requirements for the dual degree. Rochester is a great place for the classical music lover. There is also a music department at the U of R that is separate from Eastman with its own ensembles etc.</p>
<p>FWIW, I just looked and none of Oberlin's Composition or Music Theory courses given this semester are shown as being at their enrollment capacity. I haven't, and won't have time to, investigate related concerns, but I suggest interested parties make some inquiries before reaching a conclusion.</p>
<p>Agreed! One should ALWAYS kick the tires with a school that is being seriously considered. (That's what we did - and Oberlin was ruled out for a bunch of reasons, that only being a small one.) I work with two folks who sang at Oberlin, and they both loved it!</p>
<p>Any good ones NOT in New England?</p>
<p>Sure - If you are willing to go out of NE, look at Lawrence University in Appleton, WI. They have an excellent conservatory which is the only reason they have a "University" label. I think the whole school is 1500 students. It is pretty easy to do dual degree and there is also very easy for the non-conservatory students to take part in all aspects of the conservatory. </p>
<p>In terms of choral programs, you will also want to take a serious look at St. Olaf in MN. They have one of the best choral programs in the country. They do NOT have a conservatory, so it is easy for non-music majors to participate in their music programs and just as easy for the music majors to do other things.</p>
<p>My daughter reports knowing "lots of" students in Oberlin Arts College taking music courses at the Conservatory. She hasn't heard about any problems.</p>
<p>Monydad - Thanks. That's helpful to know, because Oberlin's music department webpage cautions that non-conservatory or non-music major students may not get the music courses they wish to take (if I read it correctly). If it's a possibility but not really likely to happen, then the risk of being shut out of a course doesn't sound like it should be a factor for us.</p>
<p>I've reported the results of my (quite) limited investigation. The impression Mini came away with may well be completely accurate. I just wasn't instantly able to corroborate it on a very quick superficial glance. If this was very important for my child I'd investigate further, and my only intent here was to recommend others do likewise, rather than rejecting the place out of hand based on this one viewpoint. I certainly wouldn't ignore it, either.</p>