Which Engineering Schools support students more than weed them out?

College Majors Engineering Majors
81

As per “There are some schools that sacrifice rigor to make them less brutal. In other words, they cover everything, but more superficially. This might not be a bad thing for certain students who work better when they can keep their self confidence. WPI, Tufts and Rochester all have less rigor. It’s a tradeoff. Lehigh seems to retain the rigor, but makes it less brutal by not requiring quite so much. That seems like a decent tradeoff.”

Well I surely would not want to hire an engineer from a program that has less rigor cause classes cover less. I’d go for the student who risked self esteem for rigor. I’d not want a bridge that was sorta ok or a automated car that went in circles cause the curriculum was too watered down.

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@lostaccount, differences in level of theory/rigor make a difference at the margins, for students that might want to do doctoral work or who aspire to highly technical jobs. All of those schools mentioned above are ABET accredited and produce competent, productive engineers. It’s certainly not settled that the “more rigorous” or “more theory based” programs produce better working engineers. It’s a debate that has raged for many years and it’s sort of silly based on the reality out in the world. The truth is every school produces good and not so good engineers, both Podunk U and MIT.

BTW, I too CRINGE when parents speak like it’s a group thing. I hope for the child that it’s an unfortunate slip and not how they’ve been parented. If not succeeding in the world will be a little tougher for all the coddling.

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+1000

84

fractal beat me to it… great point, eyemgh!

That’s not to say that every student knows how sort through the priorities. Parent research here on CC can help for conversation starters.

85

After going through all of the college visits, research, expenses and angst of making a college selection, with my own daughter, I’m perfectly willing to give someone a pass when they say “we are about to apply”. It’s been “we” for the last 17 years, and it’s going to be “we” for the next 4 to 5, when it comes to paying the bills. :slight_smile:

86

^“Well I surely would not want to hire an engineer from a program that has less rigor cause classes cover less.”

But engineering and technology firms in the main recruit students whose GPA is at least 3.0, a record that is not easy to maintain in engineering school. All U.S. engineering schools are rigorous, but burdening yourself with a 16 credit hour load of hard engineering courses may not be the best prescription for a job offer straight out of undergraduate school.

87

I know I’m veering off topic here, but will it be “we” who apply for the internship? First job? Make a marriage proposal? “We” guide, nurture and support our children, but “we” aren’t co-pilots of our children’s lives. They have to learn to solo and that, through learning self reliance and resilience, is what I personally view our job as parents to be.

88

I certainly understand where this sentiment comes from and I don’t yet have kids so maybe my opinion is moot here, but I still don’t really agree with this. In my mind, parents are likely paying for their kids’ educations out of love and a desire to see them succeed in life. To me, that means the highly personal choice of school should be almost entirely left up to them (within reason, of course; it has to be affordable in the end). It seems to me that the best way to get a good return on investment is to simply help them find the school where they will be happy and in the right frame of mind to excel in their chosen field while giving them space to grow into their own person. I am eternally grateful that my parents took that approach with my brother and me.

89

^^^^^^

+a bunch!

90

There are a lot of opportunities for engineers. There is no one right answer. Certainly the students who excel in the most rigorous programs are in high demand, and I certainly go after them, but it’s not easy to get them. There are a lot of good students in other programs too. Sometimes having students who didn’t get weeded out, had time to digest what they did covered, developed a sense of curiosity that makes them pretty valuable too. If you want to go into research, you are going to focus anyway. I’ve seen a lot of Tufts graduates go to a good graduate school and do just fine.

I don’t think there is only one right answer. Students should ask how they can maximize THEIR potential given their learning styles, how hard they can stand working, and how much their own self-confidence relies on being able to get high grades. It’s not an easy decision, but I’ve seen a lot of variations. If you get weeded out in the most rigorous program, you would probably have been better off with a less hardcore approach.

91

How can a layperson tell which program is rigorous and which is not? In your opinion is Case rigorous?

92

Yes, Case is rigorous. Not tippy top elite, but per our touring DS and DH and I (both engineers) thought it was a great option. (Side note - lots of Nobel Prize winner from Case. That was not on our list of criteria, but interesting trivia.) Now you’ll read about some students that think it is toooo rigorous and dreary, but STEM schools are not the right choice for everybody.

Personally I think it’s good idea to investigate placement rates and whether the graduate job types / regions seem a good fit. When DS attended two classes at Case, we wandered around and made a stop at the career placement center.

93

Thanks, @lots2do for the Plan 2 suggestion. D looked at it and cringed at it because writing and literature just aren’t her thing, even though her English teacher wouldn’t agree. She has an analytical mind and writes well, which have helped her in these subjects, but she really doesn’t want to pursue them.

@i012575 thanks for the checklist and the tidbit about your D fending for herself. Both are very helpful.

So, as the clock is ticking away on application deadlines… (don’t go there-- I started her on this process when she was a freshman, knowing that it would take this long.)

D is working diligently to get applications in, while I work diligently to try somehow to help provide direction, but unfortunately for her, it’s the blind leading the blind, so I appreciate all comments. Please keep them coming.

D isn’t limited to TX, but at this point, not sure how many more schools we can research realistically and make any deadlines. She has always said she doesn’t want “too small” (Case Western was too small for her)-- but she has done well in small classes in high school. D says she prefers city, but feels the most relaxed and happy in the outdoors. I’m a little nervous about the TX public universities’ campus carry next August (please don’t go there either) so D is having to consider options that weren’t on the first list. Cost isn’t the deciding factor, but of course I don’t want to over-pay.

Wow, how hard is this?

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So are a lot of professors at the major Texas universities. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

95

My daughter is a first year at Grorgia Tech. I will say this it is stressful. A’s are very hard to come by. However, tutoring is available for many of the difficult “weed out” classes, once a week there is recitation and my daughter studies with others. Yes it is extremely challenging where students have to work harder than they ever have but this is probably True for any top engineering program. It’s true GT does not baby students, they have to seek out help which is available. My daughter says her classes at tech are way harder than any AP class including BC Calc she ever took at high school or at the four year state university she dual enrolled at.

96

@Commiserating, it is very hard! Senior year is a long, stressful, and kind of wonderful journey in its own way. I think it is hard because there are a lot of great choices, a lot of variables to consider in making a good choice, and it is both expensive to begin with and expensive if the student changes his/her mind once they get started, especially if there is merit money involved and a change or transfer means giving up that money. And sometimes as a parent, you feel like you are pushing a rope to get your kid through the process.

97

There is no easy engineering program. What is most important is to find the right fit based on your daughter’s wants and needs. She will be most successful if she is happy. Just my $.02. Some kids like a smaller close-knit environment - my daughter is one of them. Some kids want the Big-10 feel. You can find excellent engineering programs that are all sizes and shapes. In general, a smaller school will be more supportive because they can be. On the other hand, I went to a big school with large freshman classes, but my department was small, so I had a little bit of both. If she felt like Case is too small, that does eliminate almost all of the smaller schools that have been discussed here.

That said, U of Rochester might be one she could explore if she can tolerate a smaller school. It is more nurturing than a Michigan. And, if she wants to change her major, she has options. The curriculum is also very flexible. The downside is their engineering offerings aren’t very broad. As I recall, there is no Civil Engineering, and I don’t think there is Industrial Engineering. (I might be wrong on that - just my recollection when my daughter looked at it.)

Good luck!

98

Engineering freshman classes are perceived as weed out, because they are taught at an appropriate level for a difficult and demanding set of majors that requires that you learn all the basic science and math fundamentals and are willing to put in a lot of hours solving problems and learning a lot of needed materials. HS math and science classes are often not that rigorous, so people may not understand exactly what they are in for. Or they look at those arrows in Physics 1 and roll their eyes and go off to do something they enjoy more. With the higher STEM salaries and also a lot of STEM hype, more people are starting in engineering, but the same factors will drive them (not weed them) out too.

Engineering does need more women and I think engineering seems more foreign still to many girls. There are also a wide array of jobs to suit everyone from those only moderately interested (management, sales, patent law, project management, business, etc) to interested (tech jobs designing something) to obsessive (doing research, advancing their fields, building robots at age 8). While the women in engineering programs still seem a bit vapid to me, a woman engineer with a pretty cool very technical job, they make sense for an 18 year old asking herself what she can do.

I don’t think she should rule out engineering because she does not have a burning desire to build robots, but depending on where she is now and in May, maybe leave some options open.

The good news about engineering is that the first year is just basic STEM classes, so you can transfer to other STEM fields including the more liberal arts oriented computer science degrees.

I would be a bit hesitant to go to a STEM-directed school like GTech or WPI or RPI if you are not sure about STEM-related fields and secretly wish you were studying philosophy. Some of the private schools and certainly all the big flagships have very good departments in all fields and are much less limiting for someone who is unsure. Funny how senior year sometimes actually helps kids make the STEM/not-STEM decision, so maybe apply to a variety of schools and see where she is in May.

We liked smaller schools, div 3 type, but everyone has different ideas. Big schools have more varied offerings and can often provide more varied people and activities as well … I would stay away from 1000 person classes, but maybe with some leeway if the school offers great upper classes or other things.

Apply to schools your daughter seems excited by that match the bulk of her interests and your financial circumstances. Once the list is culled by acceptances, finances, HS moodiness, etc, the decisions get easier. Also campus visits, even after admission sometimes either improve or really hurt interest in that school, the “fit” thing.

99

I’m not so much worried about “easy” as I am about “supportive,” I think D is smart and when there’s a job to do (schoolwork) she gets it done. She needs some advice and direction, and I understand everyone will need tutoring. Being introverted is no excuse and I know she can be assertive when she needs to be. She might like to get lost some in bigger classes and a bigger school, and she won’t be the one clamoring for attention, so medium class sizes where the professor knows students might be a good fit.

All her teachers promote their areas to study because she can excel in all of them. Before I catch grief for being elitist, we’re far from it. Just stating facts so I can get more good advice.

I see lots of suggestions for schools far, far away from home. The students that we know that go far, far away have family or friends close to their school. Does anyone have any suggestions for good, supportive engineering programs closer to Texas? Again, she’s already in TAMU, will apply to UT soon, neither of which scream “supportive.”

Would anyone really consider UT-Dallas, SMU, or Baylor for engineering? University of Tulsa? OU?

100

I don’t have any personal knowledge of Ohio State, but if this student’s response is any indication of the quality of the student body there, it would be worth looking into:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/ohio-state-university-columbus/1820124-ohio-state-an-11th-hour-add-to-the-college-list.html#latest