<p>I know both are in-state schools, therefore are very difficult for students OOS to get into, but I'd just like to know.</p>
<p>I think UVA is. They accepted 24% of OOS people and 43% of instate people. Total was 34%. UM's acceptance rate was 49.5% overall. Not sure about out of state versus instate.</p>
<p>UVA definitely for OOS</p>
<p>For one reason or another, despite a higher acceptance rate, USNews ranks UMich higher than UVa in their selectivity rankings</p>
<p>UVa is easier to get into if you apply to UMich early. Of course if you apply to UMich later then it's harder to get into.</p>
<p>There was another thread on this about a month ago:</p>
<p>Here is an excerpt:</p>
<p>The OOS admit rate for U Virginia last year was just over 32% with a 36% yield (it was 45% accept rate for IS and 68% yield). Combined it was 37% accept rate and 51% yield. </p>
<p>U Michigan does not break out the information by IS and OOS and so you have to guess at the numbers. In their latest CDS, their accept rate was just over 47%. If you assume that their admit and yield trends were similar to U Virginia (both schools try to have a 67% IS/33% OOS enrollment), then you get something like IS admit rate of 60-65% and OOS admit rate of around 40-45%.</p>
<p>UVA is way harder I think.</p>
<p>UVA is much harder to get into OOS.</p>
<p>UVA for sure.</p>
<p>jrpar, UVa is not "much" harder to get into than Michigan, regardless of state residence. Overall, they are about equally selective. For OOS applicants, UVa is more selective, but not by much. In terms of ACT/SAT scores, class rank and unweighed GPAs, Michigan and UVa are practically identical. In terms of acceptance rates, UVa accepts fewer applicants.</p>
<p>I'd say UVA is more selective, though not by a large margin. It's difficult to compare the SATs, because one superscores while the other doesn't. However, didn't Michigan have rolling admission up until recently? UVA is also very private-like.</p>
<p>In my experience UVA is more selective by a fair margin.</p>
<p>If you accept that number wise they're practically identical, then they're similar. chances wise--well you have an overall 13% better chance of getting into Michigan than UVa (47% vs. 34%)--although its difficult to draw comparisons when Michigan doesn't report IS/OOS numbers.</p>
<p>^^ you'd have a 13% better chance if admissions were random, but they aren't.</p>
<p>According to their common data sets:</p>
<p>Mid 50% SAT Range:
Michigan: 1210-1420
UVa: 1220-1430
UVa superscores but Michigan doesn't, so it is not really possible to compare exactly, but suffice it to say, both schools have impressive SAT ranges given their size. Both schools focus far more on high school accomplishment than standardized test results and typically, students at those two universities do not focus nearly as much on SAT preparation as students who end up at their private peers (the Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins etc...)</p>
<p>Mid 50% ACT rage:
Michigan: 27-31
UVa: 26-31
Again, both schools have fairly close mid 50% ACT ranges, and again, they are impressive comsidering their size. Supposedly more selective universities like Brown, Columbia and Cornell have mid 50% ACT ranges of 28-32, which isn't appreciably higher.</p>
<p>% graduating among the top 10% of their high school class:
Michigan: 90%
UVa: 88%</p>
<p>Mean graduating high school GPA:
Michigan: 3.75 (unweighed)
UVa: 4.07 (weighed)
It is hard to compare since UVa calculates weighed GPA and Michigan unweighs GPA, but I'd say both have very high expectations and standards.</p>
<p>As I said above, both schools are considered very selective, with UVa accepting a lower % of applicants. Niether school is "much" more selective or "more selective by a fair margin". The numbers just don't support such claims.</p>
<p>alexandre,
I think your post paints a rosier comparison for U Michigan than the facts would warrant:</p>
<ol>
<li> According to the CDS of each school (which you link to above), the main admissions Academic Criteria are:</li>
</ol>
<p>A. Rigor of secondary school record
U Michigan: Very Important
U Virginia: Very Important</p>
<p>B. Class Rank
U Michigan: Important
U Virginia: Very Important</p>
<p>C. Academic GPA
U Michigan: Important
U Virginia: Very Important</p>
<p>D. Standardized Test Scores
U Michigan: Important
U Virginia: Important</p>
<p>E. Application Essay
U Michigan: Important
U Virginia: Important</p>
<p>F. Recommendations
U Michigan: Important
U Virginia: Very Important</p>
<p>The inescapable conclusion is that the rigor of the high school transcript is most important, but the other factors, including standardized test scores also carry great weight. The official document of each school, the Common Data Set, makes clear that standardized test scores are an "Important" consideration for both schools in their application process. </p>
<p>As for how they compare to private schools in their use of standardized test scores, I believe you are trying to wish away what is usually a fairly sizable advantage when comparing standardized test scores to schools like Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, etc. Undoubtedly there is some amount of student statistical overlap, but U Michigan and U Virginia both enroll student bodies that, on average, are less strong than these private schools. </p>
<p>To use your logic for ACT scores in comparing U Michigan up to more selective privates, then you must also evaluate how this approach compares U Michigan down to less selective privates. Thus, schools such as BYU and American U would have to be considered as peers as their scores also aren't "appreciably" different. The truest ACT comparisons for U Michigan (27-31) are Tulane (27-31) and NYU (27-31) and U Miami (26-31). </p>
<ol>
<li> The statistical comparisons are close for standardized tests at U Michigan and U Virginia, but the sample sizes are very different.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>U Michigan: 72% (3896 students) submit ACT scores and 56% (3015 students) submit SAT scores</p>
<p>U Virginia: 15% (456 students) submit ACT scores and 98% (3029 students) submit SAT scores</p>
<p>Due to these sample sizes, the SAT is a much better tool for comparing these two colleges. Furthermore, while U Michigan may not superscore in their admissions, the CDS is done by each individual category and my understanding is that these numbers reflect the best score on a section basis, ie, they are superscored. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>The GPA data is not very helpful in judging student quality as there is great disparity in grading discipline in American high schools. Many reports have been published about grade inflation at the high school level and a GPA of 3.75 is not necessarily a very demanding level. If you go by GPA, then U North Carolina is the third highest ranked college in America and U Florida is the tenth ranked. I don't think that many observers of the college scene would reach that conclusion. </p></li>
<li><p>Acceptance Rate</p></li>
</ol>
<p>U Virginia: 45% IS, 32% OOS, 37% Overall
U Michigan: 60-65% IS, 40-45% OOS, 47% Overall</p>
<p>I believe that in the most recently admitted class (the data for which has yet to be officially released in a common data set), the overall acceptance rate for U Virginia declined further to about 34% (with OOS rate likely around 30%). By contrast, the overall acceptance rate for U Michigan expanded to 50%. It would appear that U Virginia is more difficult for OOS acceptance than U Michigan and, depending on how you define it, may even be "way harder."</p>
<p>Hawkette, Michigan has always stated that standardized test scores are "important". But as I pointed out earlier, Michigan does not differentiate between a 1200 and a 1600. Michigan's philosphy simply doesn't place much weight on those tests, no matter what its CDS claims. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the CDS reports a single SAT score, the one that the university uses. In the case of schools that do not superscore, that means the highest score in a single sitting. In the case of schools that superscore, that means the highest score in each section. Not that it matters, in this case (I don't see a difference of 50 or 100 points as significant). Michigan and UVa both have incredibly talented student bodies. </p>
<p>And I agree that the student quality difference between Michigan (or any other elite university) isn't much greater than the student quality at Tulane or NYU. What separates the former from the latter is academic excellence, which has little or nothing to do with student quality. Academic excellence is based on the quality of the faculty and the curriculum that such a faculty can wield. Of course, the quality of labs and academic facilities are also important. But whether a professor is teaching a group of geniuses or a group of average intellects will not alter the professor's approach. The professor will teach the matrial and test the students in the same way.</p>
<p>But we are drifting from the OP's question. UVa's acceptance rate is 37% and Michigan's is 47%. In terms of student statistics, the two schools are identical. I don't see how one can speculate that UVa is "much" more selective than Michigan, whether it is for OOS applicants or IS applicants. I agree that it is harder to get into UVa I said so above. But claiming that UVa is "much" more selective than Michigan would be like saying that Cornell is much more selective than Chicago.</p>
<p>I think you are confusing student quality with difficulty of admittance. The enrolled student profiles of U Michigan and U Virginia are statistically similar. The difficulty of gaining admissions from OOS is harder at U Virginia, by a margin of probably 10-15%. I believe that was the question posed by the OP.</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I believe that Virginia has a law capping the percent of non-residents. Regardless, Virginia is reputed to be more difficult for out-of-state applicants. Michigan tuition rates are quite high for residents, while Virginia's in state tuition is a steal. I just checked tuition rates and Michigan does give undergraduate students a much lower rate. The law school tuition is almost identical for resident and non-residents at Mich., however.</p>
<p>UVA is simply harder to get in OOS because it admits few students than Michigan, and has a law capping the percent of non-residents, as icy said. Other than that there's no major difference between the schools. If you get into both, go to the one that makes more sense financially. Actually, there's not much difference in tuition between the two schools for OOS students. UVA is cheaper by 1 or 2K.</p>