<p>^no I was just trying to make a point. Let it die now...</p>
<p>Stanford is more famous than Berkeley in the United States.
Berkeley in more famous than Stanford internationally.</p>
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Cal seems to have a bit more international reputation, but most of us posting are in the US so it wouldn't be fair for us to judge without somebody abroad saying much.
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It's just that UCB is more famous, and is liked better overseas. Period. End of the useless thread of the day.
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<p>I have never seen any evidence that Berkeley is more famous than Stanford internationally, on the aggregate. In some places, I have found Stanford to be more famous. In others, Berkeley is more famous. I don't see any consistent pattern that would lead anybody to categorically state that Berkeley is more famous than Stanford internationally.</p>
<p>^Thankyou sakky that's exactly the point of this thread. I wanted to show a certain person that Stanford is not 'obviously less known than Cal'.
Did I ever say how much I appreciate your thought sakky?</p>
<p>I was born in Pakistan and Stanford and Berkeley were 2 of the first 4 schools I'd heard of along with Harvard and Yale. Although Berkeley is a lot more prestigious outside America than inside, I still got the impression that Stanford was supperior before I came to America.</p>
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Famous or respected?
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<p>This is a key distinction.</p>
<p>For instance, overseas, you'll typically find that universities connected with America's famous "big cities" are well known if nothing more than the fact that it's got a famous big city in its name:</p>
<p>New York University
UC Los Angeles
Boston University</p>
<p>Now, nothing against those schools in particular, but the point is that being "well known" does not always mean "respected" - that is to say:
let's not confuse "familiarity" with "prestige".</p>
<p>I always like bringing this back to my "hamburger" analogy to illuminate this point:</p>
<p>99.9% of the American public will readily recognize Micky D's Big Mac or Quarter Pounder (over a billion served!) vs., say, the "21" burger at the 21 Club (New York)... but does that make Ronald McDonald more "prestigious"? Hardly.</p>
<p>Now to be certain, when it comes to universities, some brands have both "familiarity" AND "prestige" (e.g. Harvard, Yale, Princeton) and some have "prestige" and less "familiarity" (e.g. Dartmouth, Brown) - but let's not confuse those two terms: less familiarity doesn't = less prestige. Just because your neighbor hasn't ever heard of Château Margaux doesn't mean it isn't prestigious - less familiar? Perhaps, but not less prestigious.</p>
<p>So back to the original question:</p>
<p>"Is Cal more "famous" or more "familiar" overseas than Stanford?" Perhaps. But is it more "respected"? No. Because in order to be able to be more "respected" then the default assumption which needs to be made is that the person judging the two products need to KNOW BOTH brands - conversely, you don't need to KNOW BOTH brands if one is just measuring "familiarity" - i.e. you either know a product/name/brand, or you don't... but in order to pick which one is more "respected" than you need to be "familiar" with both brands - and for those who know both, I'd argue that Stanford wins... and this is the group that matters.</p>
<p>Stanford!!! Represent!!</p>
<p>Stanford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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I was born in Pakistan and Stanford and Berkeley were 2 of the first 4 schools I'd heard of along with Harvard and Yale.
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<p>Really? If you are Pakistani, I'm quite surprised you never heard of MIT growing up. Practically every South Asian that I know had heard of MIT as a child.</p>
<p>Berkeley is NOT more famous than Stanford, both at national and international level.</p>
<p>Schools that are famous in Asia:</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
MIT
Berkeley
Stanford
Cornell
Princeton
UCLA
CalTech
Johns Hopkins</p>
<p>*above list is not in order of rank.</p>
<p>"Really? If you are Pakistani, I'm quite surprised you never heard of MIT growing up. Practically every South Asian that I know had heard of MIT as a child."
Well... I only lived there until I was 8 and in those years the only international schools I had heard of were Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Berkeley, Princeton, Oxford and Cambridge (not in that order though).</p>
<p>How about Punjab University?</p>
<p>I agree with that list, dhl3</p>
<p>I've asked my parents about this and I'll second dh's list ... But they never heard of caltech (this doesn't mean its less prestigous or whatnot)</p>
<p>There are a billion people in China who don't know either of them exist. Who cares!</p>
<p>Coming from a UC Berkeley student, I would say Stanford is more respected OVERALL (undergrad + grad) nationally. Internationally it's about the same, really.</p>
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Let's see...50+ kids in my school got into UCB, while only 4 got into Stanford. Those numbers speak.
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<p>That's not really a fair comparison. One important factor is that UCB has roughly four times the number of undergrads as Stanford. Also, UCB accepts mostly Californian residents while Stanford only accept some, so it's natural for more Californian students in one high school to get into Berkeley. Also, using one high school isn't a sufficient sample pool to use as evidence for any theory. For example, one person in my high school got into Harvard, but none got into WUSTL. What does that tell you? Not much, really.</p>
<p>Not to say that with these adjusted the numbers will be same; I'm just pointing out that your numbers are skewed.</p>
<p>that's a lot of ignorant chinese people. more than 70% of the whole population!</p>
<p>I live in California and even Californians think Stanford is more prestigious, as least as far as "college" goes. One of my ex-roomates is a San Francisco HS teacher and he just found it ironic to call them rivalry because to him, as far as admission goes, the two aren't even close. His HS would send quite a few to Cal each year but could easily get nobody to Stanford. In reality, Cal's admission rivals more with UCLA while Stanford's rivals are HYP.</p>
<p>I am from Hong Kong and I can't say that's the case for other people there as I didn't conduct surveys. But Chinese newspapers do report US News rankings. There's only one college guide written in Chinese and it used the US News ranking. So if that's where people get their info from, guess who they think as better? People seemed to assocciate the whole dot.com and Silicon Valley more with Stanford and their alums include founders of HP, Cisco, and Yahoo..etc. Some people here keep talking about engineering and sciences as if they mean the most for everybody but seriously in today's world, probably more people care about professional schools and business and Cal is simply not in the same league when it comes to professional programs.</p>
<p>Stanford in US and Europe, Berkeley in Asia</p>
<p>Actually it's Stanford in US, Europe, AND Asia.</p>