For health reasons, my 12th grade daughter is thinking about whether to drop AP Calc or regular Physics. For the UCs, she already fulfilled her 4 years of math requirement - she took Honors Algebra in middle school and Honors Geometry (summer before 9), Honors Algebra 2 (9), Honors Precalc (10). For science, she’s taken Honors Bio (9) and Honors Chem (11). Her school schedule has been geared toward her performing arts classes (2-3 per year), because she wants to major in performing arts or social studies. Her counselor and my originally agreed that it was more important to keep Physics to get in a 3rd year of science. However I’ve been reading that for other more selective schools (outside California), they actually look for 4 years in high school not just the highest level achieved! Any advice?
For selective schools outside of California, they are typically looking for 4 years of math, 4 years of English, 3 years of science (including Physics, Chemistry and Biology), 3-4 years of foreign language and 4 years of social studies (including American History). I don’t think taking Algebra in HS (and doing Geometry over the summer) will negate the need for 4 years of math in HS but I could be wrong. You should check directly with any schools she is considering to confirm what they are looking for as each school may be slightly different.
I’d keep the physics- but - it will be a rigor downgrade. Hopefully overall rigor is strong.
The reason I say this is - even the most competitive schools will seek math only through pre-calc. They’d like more but they also want three lab sciences - and you’d be lacking.
Dropping the math could hurt at more selective schools. I’ll go on to say it WILL hurt. But dropping Physics will mean you don’t even meet minimums at many places. This is common…
Of course, if going for performing arts, there are other facets like portolios or auditions that wlll move the needle.
Good luck.
And PS - you know this, there’s a ton of great schools that vary in selectivity - so either way she goes, she has the chance to end up at a wonderful school. It’s name may be less known or acceptance rate a bit higher - but many kids go that way, so it’s not the end of the world. Mine both chose their “safeties” - so do what’s best for her but that’s my thoughts above anyway.
- Four years of English
- Four years of math (through pre-calculus or higher)
- Three years of the same foreign language
- Three years of lab sciences (biology, chemistry, physics, etc.)
- Three years of social studies
I’m not sure how you’re defining more selective schools. I think not taking any math past 10th grade is going to be an issue for a lot of schools. Would switching from AP Calc to AP Stats be an option? It’s a significantly easier class.
At most schools, the middle school math won’t count, and I’m not sure about the geometry taken before freshman year either. Colleges typically want four years of math taken while in high school. I don’t know about the UCs for math - someone else can speak to that.
I’m not sure this is the case. The middle school math is usually on the transcript.
But a lot depends on where the student is applying. Selective means a lot to a lot of people.
I will say though - that requirements - such as 3 years science - need to be met.
But sometimes requirements - like a pre calc which the student has - are bare minimums but for most kids, aren’t enough.
Best thing would be to stay the course or move to stats. But not drop either…
Agree: middle school math does not count towards what the selective colleges want to see in Hs.
If the OP is targeting the most selective T20ish then 4 years of math in HS plus 4 years of science (the 3 basics plus a 4th yr of an AP) are what is expected to be competitive, unless the school doesnt offer it. If not targeting those super-selective schools, then 3 yrs of science is fine, but no math after 10th grade is not(if I am understanding the situation).
Stay the course in physics and move to Stats is the best bet.
4 years of math is required for many schools, while most will accept 3 years of lab science. I would double check the colleges on your list to make sure she has the required number of years of math.
Did she not take math in 11th grade? Then she should absolutely take math in 12th grade because some schools may not count her Geometry.
If physics and AP Calculus together are too much for your daughter, could she drop down to high school level calculus, Algebra III, or another non-AP math course?
Pre-calculus as the highest level math course would be fine if she were taking pre-calculus as a high school senior. Taking honors level pre-calculus in 10th grade and then no math in either 11th or 12th grades is likely to be viewed negatively even at less selective schools. Did she take computer science in lieu of math in 11th grade?
If she must drop one of the courses without adding an alternate course, look at the high school course recommendations for the schools of interest to her. Some may be satisfied with two lab sciences, others will insist on three. If the websites do not indicate whether or not math credits earned prior to high school are accepted, contact the schools.
Can you tell me more about how much easier AP Stat is? Do you know if it will satisfy math core requirements at many colleges in the same way that AP Calc does? I definitely will need to ask her GC about this.
It was a choice we made due to D’s health issues. Plus her GC told us that she already fulfilled her 4 years based upon her knowledge of the UC requirements.
Looks like UC will accept middle school math if the HS accepts it as equivalent to their course.
UC Math requirement states that:
Three years of college-preparatory mathematics that include the topics covered in elementary and advanced algebra and two- and three-dimensional geometry. A geometry course or an integrated math course with a sufficient amount of geometry content must be completed. Approved integrated math courses may be used to fulfill part or all of this requirement, as may math courses taken in the seventh and eighth grades if the high school accepts them as equivalent to its own courses; also acceptable are courses that address the previously mentioned content areas and include or integrate probability, statistics or trigonometry.
We are in CA and my son also took Geometry in the summer before 9th. His GC strongly recommended that he take minimum of 3 years math in HS.
Depending on what schools she is targeting, she really should stick with both. Are there any other classes she can drop? I know you said she takes 2-3 performing arts classes a year. Perhaps she could sacrifice one of those?
Many take stats instead of Calc. It’s not as rigorous. However, if your student plans to potentially major in a social science, it’s likely more useful as most social science kids, perhaps all, will take stats in college.
I don’t think this is a UC issue nor another school issue. I’m in the minority here…but as far as meeting minimums. But minimums often are not good enough.
It depends on the kid but most deem stats easier/less rigorous and it certainly makes sense given the interest academically.
Best of luck.
My kids’ took AP Calc BC not AB, so I can’t make a direct comparison to what your daughter is experiencing. But both found AP Stats to be extremely easy. It’s not calculus based and universally considered the much easier math AP. Whether colleges will accept it to satisfy their math requirements is going to depend on the school as well as the score. Almost all of them publish an AP table so it’s easy to look up what kind of credit is offered for schools she’s interested in.
Take the math. Even if 2 years is enough since they count middle school many other schools won’t count it and your just limiting your choices.
I agree with what others have said in that she should really have 4 years of math AND 3 years of science. Rather than dropping either, maybe she can take an easier version- not AP, or take Stats instead of Calculus? You should discuss with her counselor.
Why do you think middle school math is “usually” on the transcript? I think this varies by school and I haven’t seen anything that suggests which is more common.
Our ‘high school’ math done in middle school was on the transcript. Yes I speak I suppose for our district. That’s my experience and that of a friend in the NE whose kids are in 10th grade (twins).
If the 4th year of math is pre calc, then I’d assume it meets the requirement. But I noted that minimums are often not enough, especially with such large gaps.
And I suggested stats because the student is potentially a social science major and stats is entirely relevant in that case whereas calc may or may not be depending on the major.
Hope that clarifies. Thanks
I just checked our transcripts out of curiosity, and my daughter’s middle school math and science classes are not on there, despite the fact that they enabled her to skip to the next level in those subjects in high school. (Independent private school in the midwest)
Something isn’t aligning between the topic headline and the original description of classes by the OP. The headline suggests her daughter is deciding between a 4th year of HS math or 3rd year of HS science for 12th grade, But math is only listed in 9th and 10th grade (and science in 9th and 11th). As the OP notes, the UC’s will count certain middle school math classes but most OOS colleges will not. So is the headline just giving credit for the middle school math is the 4 year HS count?
So the daughter took no science in 10th and no math in 11th, and really only had 2 of each going into senior year and the real decision is between 3 years of of math or 3 years of science?
Is it really not possible to do both senior year? I guess it depends on priorities. By now as a 12th grader, the student should have an idea which colleges she may be applying to. Has the OP or daughter looked up the requirements for those schools? Does the daughter aspire to any of them more than the CA schools? For the highly selective OOS colleges, not having 3 years of both is almost certain to impact acceptance.
If the aspiring major is performance (acting, voice, music?), is she going to audition for programs that select based on auditions rather than strictly academic applications? If so, given how much is involved in that process and how early it starts, it would be important to know the schools by now, in which case look up the base requirement or even contact the AO’s assigned to the region for the schools and ask which would be more important.