Which one should I choose? UMich or WUSTL

<p>^ Michigan med school looks like it promotes academic inbreeding. :)</p>

<p>You can say the same about Michigan’s Law School.</p>

<p>It’s job is to try to keep trained doctors INSTATE. I assume more often than not a Michigan graduate resident will stay in Michigan. Well, at least more so than an OOS applicant.</p>

<p>^ Understand the rationale
just saying.</p>

<p>It’s not like California in this state UCB. We are definitely losing population and have a major brain drain occuring. It’s a shame, but that’s the way it is.</p>

<p>Let me offer the perspective of a long time hiring manager from private industry. The “University of Michigan” brand name is national recognized. Whether this is because of UofM’s academic reputation or partially because it’s played so many football games on TV is, to some degree, irrelevant. If you are concerned with name recognition, Michigan beats WUSTL by a large margin.</p>

<p>The Michigan name will be recognized virtually everywhere in the US. While a WUSTL graduate will doubtlessly have an upper hand searching for a job in St. Louis, by the time that candidate gets to Dallas, Atlanta or Chicago, Michigan’s name will dwarf WUSTL’s. WUSTL is a fine school and you will doubtlessly have an opportunity at a very good education there, but outside of high school guidance counselor offices and forums like CC, WUSTL is virtually unheard of by the vast majority of the population. This is not a knock on WUSTL, it’s an acknowledgement that most people aren’t up to speed on the nuances of all the various colleges, (e.g., I witnessed a famous CEO confuse Penn with Penn State and think Wharton was its own university). </p>

<p>Internationally the recognition differences will be even greater. Most Americans, including hiring managers, can only name two non-US colleges, Oxford & Cambridge. Again that doesn’t mean the University of St. Andrews is no good, it just means you’re going to be spending time explaining to people how it’s a good school not just a golf course. The rest of the world has a slightly better understanding of the range of schools here in the US, but it is still centered on the big names. You don’t state which part of the world you are from but I’d suggest the following experiment, go to your local financial district and randomly stop 100 people and ask them if they’ve ever heard of the University of Michigan or WUSTL. I’d be surprised if fewer than 15 had heard of Michigan and I’ll be flabbergasted if more than 2 had heard of WUSTL. </p>

<p>Finally, anyone who thinks that a WUSTL grad with a 3.5 will be viewed as “clearly” superior to a Michigan grad with a 3.5 is either an employee of WUSTL’s Admissions office, desperate to rationalize the extra money they spent on their education or woefully naive about how the “real world” works.</p>

<p>^^^Very well said! I totally agree.</p>

<p>hi soundwave, i too am stuck deciding between WashU and Umich. I just visited UMich this last weekend and only became more torn. i absolutely LOVE ann arbor. It strikes me as the absolute perfect college town. there is everythingg there! my only concerns were

  1. the weather- i don’t mind the cold, but the lack of sun for such long periods of time can over time become a bit depressing.
  2. the lack of fitness-i know umich has terrific sports, but one student told me that come winter all the students become pretty dormant and few exercise at all. the campus is also pretty huge and so it could be annoying to having to trek in the cold for 20 min to get from my room to the gym.
  3. im also planning on taking art (double major) but the art and med school is on north campus which is soo far away and isolated. living up there would be awful.</p>

<p>on a better note, the ppl there were super nice and genuinely seemed like they liked it, as did the teachers. The teachers kept emphasizing that they are there, you just have to take the initiative.</p>

<p>i’m visiting WashU in a week and from everything i hear its also great! such a hard choice!!</p>

<p>^^^^^You think St. Louis is in the tropics? North Campus is a 10 minute bus ride tops between both areas and has buses running very frequently. Personally I love how the north and central campus’ are so different. By the way, the med school is not on north campus. It has it’s own campus adjacent to the central campus and close to the Hill dorm area.</p>

<p>Jenny, when comparing Michigan and WUSTL, weather should not be a major factor. Those two areas have similar climates. The average highs and lows in winter are lower in Ann Arbor, but St Louis still has cold winters. In terms of sunshine, both cities have their fair share of cloudy days. Finally, Michigan has two major athletic facilities (Central Campus Recreation Building and North Campus Recreation Building) and students rarely have to walk more than 10 minutes to get to one of those two.</p>

<p>“You don’t state which part of the world you are from but I’d suggest the following experiment, go to your local financial district and randomly stop 100 people and ask them if they’ve ever heard of the University of Michigan or WUSTL. I’d be surprised if fewer than 15 had heard of Michigan and I’ll be flabbergasted if more than 2 had heard of WUSTL.”</p>

<p>Of course this is true as there is always a University of [insert a state name]. But do those people who have heard of UMich, really know about how good the university is? I mean, while both schools offer good education, I think OP is better off going to WUSTL for undergrad because WUSTL is more undergrad focused than UMich.
Anyway, if what the OP is looking for from these two schools is Bragging Right, I dont think he/she should go to either one.
Finally, the two schools are completely different from one another. If OP likes a big good school located in midwest, he/she should have applied to NotreDame, Northwestern, and Michigan. NOT WUSTL. But if OP likes a smaller and not so jocky kind of good school in midwest, then he/she should look into WUSTL and UChicago.</p>

<p>Those links provide great insight on demographic, economic, social and weather information for both cities. Definitely worth a look.</p>

<p>[Ann</a> Arbor, Michigan (MI) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, sex offenders, news, sex offenders](<a href=“http://www.city-data.com/city/Ann-Arbor-Michigan.html]Ann”>http://www.city-data.com/city/Ann-Arbor-Michigan.html)</p>

<p>[St</a>. Louis, Missouri (MO 63110) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, sex offenders, news](<a href=“http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Louis-Missouri.html]St”>http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Louis-Missouri.html)</p>

<p>Wash U students are significantly smarter than Michigan students so that’s something the OP should take into account. Studying with a smarter peer group will inspire you to work harder because you will be surrounded with students who will force you to expand your intellectual boundaries in order to stay up to speed with their performance. </p>

<p>Personally, I don’t see the appeal in living in a “college town” and I would rather wake up everyday and look outside and see a gorgeous quad with flowers blooming everywhere (Wash U). I personally don’t find Ann Arbor to be aesthetically appealing even though it has a nice intellectual vibe with all the coffee shops and bookstores.</p>

<p>Both are really good schools but Michigan has more name recognition primarily because it’s older, has a visibly dominant athletic program and is named after its flagship state. The people who recognize the Wash U name are “those in the know” and they will respect you because they understand that it offers a fantastic undergraduate education that is arguably top 15 in the country.</p>

<p>“Wash U students are significantly smarter than Michigan students so that’s something the OP should take into account.”</p>

<p>You should add the word “On average”. Otherwise you’re gonna be flamed by Wolverine fans. XD
But, I totally agree with that because UMich in-state acceptance rate is really high. Not sure, though
but I think it’s around 50%.</p>

<p>"Wash U students are significantly smarter than Michigan students so that’s something the OP should take into account. Studying with a smarter peer group will inspire you to work harder because you will be surrounded with students who will force you to expand your intellectual boundaries in order to stay up to speed with their performance. "</p>

<p>On average, the difference in the quality of the students between WUSTL and Michigan is similar to the difference between Caltech and Stanford. I am not sure I would say there is a significant difference. Stanford and Michigan still place as high a percentage of their students into top graduate schools and companies, so I am not sure if students at Caltech and WUSTL are truly much smarter. </p>

<p>Regardless, generally speaking, students of varrying academic potential do not mix in the academic arena. They may hang out socially, but they will not take the same classes and/or study together. The academically gifted with tend to take classes with other academically gifted students. You won’t have many dumbdumbs taking advanced Mathematics and Economics classes or successfully getting admitted into the CoE Engineering or Ross. </p>

<p>“Personally, I don’t see the appeal in living in a “college town” and I would rather wake up everyday and look outside and see a gorgeous quad with flowers blooming everywhere (Wash U). I personally don’t find Ann Arbor to be aesthetically appealing even though it has a nice intellectual vibe with all the coffee shops and bookstores.”</p>

<p>That’s a personal preference. Most people actually like living in Ann Arbor. What’s not to like in a city where 70% of the population has a bachelor’s degree and 40% has a master’s or doctorate degree and the crime rate is significantly lower than the national average? But even from an aesthetic point of view, Michigan’s campus is very nice and the town of Ann Arbor is pleasing to the eyes.</p>

<p>“Both are really good schools but Michigan has more name recognition primarily because it’s older, has a visibly dominant athletic program and is named after its flagship state. The people who recognize the Wash U name are “those in the know” and they will respect you because they understand that it offers a fantastic undergraduate education that is arguably top 15 in the country.”</p>

<p>Michigan’s reputation among the masses may be thanks to its large alumni network, athletic tradition etc
,but at least it has a widespread reputation, which is not the case with WUSTL. When it comes to “people in the know” Michigan will typically be highly regarded because it is an academic powerhouse and the quality of education is hard to match, let alone beat. WUSTL is also highly regarded among the highly educated of course.</p>

<p>

WashU students are probably, ON AVERAGE, of higher caliber than Michigan students. After all, it is ranked #12 by US News so lots of top students tend to apply just to say they applied/got into a top school, and WashU is also extremely selective. This means that classes at WashU might be more rigorous-- the professors will write harder exams, and the students will compete to get above the curve. However, from what I hear, WashU students tend to be pretty supportive. If the OP likes an intellectual challenge, go to WashU. Otherwise, go to Michigan. Michigan should have good academics as well but may not be as competitive.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’ve visited WashU campus before
and I agree with lesdiablesbleus, it’s a gorgeous place. I have not visited Ann Arbor before, but from what I hear it seems like a nice place too. It’s up to the OP to visit and choose which campus is more his/her feel. </p>

<p>

There’s a big difference between the type of name recognition WashU and Michigan get. While I haven’t really heard of Michigan until coming on CC and have heard of WashU for a while, it may be true that Michigan is more well known with lay people. However, WashU is by far extremely and more respected in academia/graduate/professional schools. One example- one of my friends at WashU was just accepted into Johns Hopkins medical school, while another one of my friends at UC Berkeley (with a 3.8+ GPA and good MCATs) has only had a few interviews with top schools. (I’m at UCLA and my apt mate has a 3.7+ and really good MCATs and has yet to hear from the top med schools she’s applied to.) If the OP is interested in academia, I’d say choose WashU. However, if the OP is interested only in going into industry after graduating from college, and not in pursuing a higher degree, and if the employment industry knows Michigan more, then go to Michigan.</p>

<p>Quality of life-wise, WashU students have everything- good dorms, food, campus, etc
But again, these may probably be minor to the OP depending on his career plans.</p>

<p>“However, WashU is by far extremely and more respected in academia/graduate/professional schools.”</p>

<p>Zebrafish, that is an extreme statement that is in fact opposite from the reality on the ground. If one of those two universities is more respected in academic/graduate/professional schools, it is Michigan, but not by the extreme that you suggested. Virtually every faculty-based rating favors Michigan over WUSTL. And as I indicated above, Michigan’s placement rates into top graduate schools edges WUSTL’s slightly. WUSTL perhaps has the edge with placement into top Medical schools, but I have not seen data to support even that claim.</p>

<p>“WashU students are probably, ON AVERAGE, of higher caliber than Michigan students. After all, it is ranked #12 by US News so lots of top students tend to apply just to say they applied/got into a top school, and WashU is also extremely selective. This means that classes at WashU might be more rigorous-- the professors will write harder exams, and the students will compete to get above the curve. However, from what I hear, WashU students tend to be pretty supportive. If the OP likes an intellectual challenge, go to WashU. Otherwise, go to Michigan. Michigan should have good academics as well but may not be as competitive.”</p>

<p>Not really Zebrafish. Faculty at top universities do not water down the material covered or dumb down exams to the level of the students. The material covered and complexity of exams/papers are determined by the quality of the faculty, not that of the student body. As such, the average GPA of the students at WUSTL may be slightly higher than the average students at Michigan, but the rigor will probablybe roughly the same. The curriculum at the University of Michigan is in fact recognized for its rigor. In terms of intensity, Michigan holds its own with most other elites. It is admitedly not as tough as Chicago or Johns Hopkins, but it is certainly intellectually challenging for the students who chose to push their boundaries. Again, it really depends on the major and on the courses a student choses to take.</p>

<p>

Is that why WUSTL has a lower Peer Assessment rating and is ranked significantly lower in graduate ranking in almost all departments except for medicine and medical related fields?</p>

<p>

Besides medical schools, can you cite statistics where WUSTL grads have advantages over Michigan or UCB/UCLA grads for admissions into other professional or PhD programs? For example, would a top engineering school like MIT or UCB take a WUSTL grad over a Michigan or UCB grad? Think about it.</p>

<p>Just wait until Michigan goes to the common application (CA) next year. Thousands more unqualified applicants, the same kind that WUSTL rejects, will be applying and the numbers on admitance will change. Then CC readers will note that the only reason Michigan’s acceptance rate went down is because it used the CA.</p>

<p>“If the OP likes an intellectual challenge, go to WashU. Otherwise, go to Michigan.”</p>

<p>I’m sorry, but that might be one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read here on CC.</p>