<p>shanka, those two “community colleges” that I attended are a magnitude above your Notre Dame, that second tier Indiana academic institution known mostly for its football teams.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>shanka, how is that “ND is a top 5 school, better than all the ivies” thingy, working out for you?</p>
<p><a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;
<p>shanka, lets take a look at the high level quality of those Notre Dame scholar students compared to HYP of the ivies. Yep ND is a “top 5” alright:</p>
<p>Ranking College Number of Rhodes Scholars
1 Harvard - 323
2 Yale - 217
3 Princeton - 192
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.Notre Dame - 14</p>
<p>shanka, Yale Law School is considered the top Law School in the U.S.</p>
<p>Last year’s entering class came from 76 undergraduate institutions.</p>
<p>[Yale</a> Law School | Entering Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/profile.htm]Yale”>Profiles & Statistics - Yale Law School)</p>
<p>How is it that NOT ONE student from Notre Dame is part of this class?</p>
<p>After all, isn’t Notre Dame a “top 5” university?</p>
<p>There must have been a couple of top students from Notre Dame’s 2,000 graduating seniors that wanted to attend law school, and certainly at least one student was worthy of attending the top law school in the country, don’t you think?</p>
<p>I find it totally unbelivable that a “top 5” (according to shanka) institution such as Notre Dame is incapable of placing at least one student at the top law school in the country.</p>
<p>
You seem to be far more agitated than any “Ivy elitist snob” on this thread. Every single one of your posts runs rampant with hypocrisy and the name-calling and slew of other ad hominem attacks will not make people take you any more seriously.</p>
<p>I really like that “Ivy Plus Society”. I wonder what it’s like there.</p>
<p>I’m picturing JohnAdams12 showing up for a mixer, only to find nobody else is there. Except Shankapotamus, who is crashing.</p>
<p>Seriously though, “elite”, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. And you will find "elite’ people originating from all sorts of schools, as well as decidedly non-elite people. It’s the people that matter, try to judge them as individuals on their own merits.</p>
<p>It cannot possibly matter which schools anonymus strangers on some internet board think are “elite”. And trying to debate with them about the superiority of your own view of what “elite” means is a truly pointless exercise. IMO.</p>
<p>^ Well said…</p>
<p>Mony,
Of course you’re right, but it can be fun and amusing nonetheless….:)</p>
<p>Johnadams,
I’m sorry you haven’t found the time yet to respond to question of why you think Notre Dame doesn’t belong in the same group as the non-HYP Ivies. Let me try to help you along….</p>
<p>Below I present a variety of statistics for various aspects of the environments at each of the non-HYP Ivies. I have also included Notre Dame. Can you tell me which one is Notre Dame??</p>
<p>Freshmen Retention , 4 Yr Grad Rate , 6 Yr Grad Rate , College </p>
<p>98.5% , 87% , 95% , College A<br>
97.5% , 84% , 94% , College B<br>
97.5% , 91% , 96% , College C<br>
96.2% , 87% , 93% , College D<br>
98.0% , 88% , 95% , College E<br>
96.0% , 70% , 88% , College F<br>
98.0% , 86% , 95% , College G </p>
<p><20 , 20-50 , >50 , S/F , College</p>
<p>77.2% , 14.4% , 8.4% , 6/1 , College A
70.6% , 20.2% , 9.2% , 8/1 , College B
55.0% , 35.6% , 9.4% , 12/1 , College C
58.1% , 25.1% , 16.8% , 10/1 , College D
72.9% , 19.8% , 7.3% , 6/1 , College E
45.9% , 36.3% , 17.8% , 15/1 , College F
62.5% , 28.8% , 8.7% , 8/1 , College G</p>
<p>SAT 25 - SAT 75 , ACT 25 - ACT 75 , College</p>
<p>1360 - 1550 , 29 - 34 , College A
1320 - 1540 , 28 - 33 , College B
1320 - 1500 , 31 - 34 , College C
1300 - 1500 , 29 - 33 , College D
1330 - 1520 , 30 - 33 , College E
1220 - 1430 , 27 - 31 , College F
1330 - 1550 , 29 - 34 , College G</p>
<pre><code> 700+ on CR , 700+ on Math , 30+ on ACT , College
64% , 66% , 73% , College A
58% , 66% , 66% , College B
50% , 64% , 88% , College C
41% , 64% , 69% , College D
52% , 70% , 76% , College E
22% , 46% , 44% , College F
65% , 67% , 73% , College G
Top 10% , Acceptance Rate , Yield , College
94% , 10.0% , 60% , College A
93% , 13.7% , 55% , College B
87% , 26.7% , 54% , College C
88% , 20.7% , 46% , College D
99% , 16.9% , 63% , College E
92% , 42.2% , 46% , College F
90% , 13.5% , 49% , College G
</code></pre>
<p>T&F , % Getting FA , Need Met , % Borrow , Amount of Indebtedness , College</p>
<p>$41,316 , 48% , 100% , na , na , College A
$38,848 , 44% , 100% , 44% , $19,390 , College B
$38,477 , 47% , 100% , 57% , $29,835 , College C
$37,954 , 39% , 100% , 46% , $24,750 , College D
$38,970 , 43% , 100% , 41% , $19,085 , College E
$35,391 , 50% , 90% , 46% , $25,586 , College F
$38,679 , 49% , 100% , 52% , $20,126 , College G</p>
<pre><code> Per Capita Endowment , College
na , College A
$333,977 , College B
$541,459 , College C
$275,149 , College D
$327,756 , College E
$181,883 , College F
$674,475 , College G
Alumni Giving Rank , College
13 , College A
7 , College B
4 , College C
20 , College D
10 , College E
79 , College F
3 , College G
Quality of teaching as judged by the students , College
A , College A
A , College B
A- , College C
A- , College D
A , College E
B+ , College F
A+ , College G
</code></pre>
<p>I don’t know what school College F is but its clearly out of place with the others. Whatever school that one is, it doesn’t belong in the same conversation as the rest of the schools you listed.</p>
<p>Whether that’s Notre Dame or an Ivy, I don’t know. But College F jumped out at me immediately.</p>
<p>@Hawkette,</p>
<p>In all honesty, some of those criteria seem incredibly irrelevant in determining whether a school is “elite” or not.</p>
<p>E is definitely Penn. Pretty sure that A is Columbia. B is Brown, D is Cornell, and G is Dartmouth. And C must be Notre Dame. No idea about F.</p>
<p>And no, I didn’t look these up. :)</p>
<p>Is there a prize for highest number of correct guesses?</p>
<p>I would say College F obviously doesn’t fit, and College C doesn’t really fit either.</p>
<p>Interesting that the post uses 7 schools when it stated “non-HYP Ivies + ND” which would result in 6 schools.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure that the 7th school, F, is a state school. And my hunch, based on the numbers, is that it’s the University of Michigan.</p>
<p>I have a feeling College F was intentionally placed there to divert our attention away from ND.</p>
<p>^So do I. lol, didn’t work</p>
<p>You guys are pretty good. Yes, I did add a 7th school that, as buddy observes, clearly doesn’t fit. And yes, 45 is right that it is a state school (U Michigan). It is a clear outlier. Here’s the code for the schools:</p>
<p>College A , Columbia
College B , Brown
College C , Notre Dame
College D , Cornell
College E , U Penn
College F , U Michigan
College G , Dartmouth</p>
<p>The interesting part for me, though, is that while the outlier was quickly identified, the distinctions between the other 6 schools of ND and the non-HYP were accepted as pretty minimal. Or am I incorrectly interpreting your comments? </p>
<p>Anyway, I think most Ivy types from the Northeast don’t have a lot of familiarity with Notre Dame. As the numbers reflect, it compares pretty well with all of the non-HYP Ivies in terms of things like student selectivity, class size, teaching quality and institutional resources. Like the Ivy colleges, it too is a pretty special place and IMO is a college that deserves inclusion in any listing of top undergraduate destinations in the USA.</p>
<p>
You are incorrectly interpreting the comments. People are wondering why you added a 7th school yet explicitly stated it was “non-HYP Ivy’s + ND”</p>
<p>good, yes. elite, no.</p>
<p>also, reread my comments, because you must have misinterpreted or ignored them.</p>
<p>jersey,
I said that the data set would include the non-HYP Ivies and Notre Dame. It did. I added a lesser school to see if people would employ their preconceived notions and latch onto it as showing Notre Dame as clearly weaker and as proof that the Ivies are stronger. </p>
<p>Now, knowing the full listing of the schools, go back and look at the data again. I think you’ll agree that Notre Dame compares awfully well. It’ll never have the same cachet with the Eastern Establishment–that’s just the way it is. But if one actually takes the time to look at the place and meet some of Notre Dame’s students and alumni, it’s hard to distinguish between them and those coming out of their more heralded competitors to the East. Academia being academia, I don’t expect the pecking order to change, but IMO for students considering either destination, one is not giving up anything by choosing to attend Notre Dame.</p>