<p>Kennedy didn’t go to Princeton, he went to Harvard. And no where have I stated that Notre Dame was SUPERIOR to Princeton. QuincyAdams certainly did not learn any reading comprehension skills at whatever Ivy league school he claims he went to. Someone pull his transcript, I smell a fraud.</p>
<p>shanka, fraud?</p>
<p>you mean like what Notre Dame does with the bottom 50% of its SAT scorers?</p>
<p>claims that they did not turn in the SAT and instead uses their ACT scores.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Kennedy was originally enrolled at Princeton, however he got sick during his first year and transferred to Harvard.</p>
<p>hawkette, ha?</p>
<p>where do I discuss catholics and the president and Kennedy?</p>
<p>any chance that you can cut/paste for once to prove a point?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>JA,
Your meaning was clear in # 296.</p>
<p>What meaning did he have?</p>
<p>I could care less that he “enrolled” at Princeton. He went to Harvard, not Princeton. When people discuss their alma mater, they don’t count schools they almost went to or had a cup of coffee at.</p>
<p>Who ever said Caltech and MIT aren’t elite are f’ing ■■■■■■■ considering the innovators and Nobel Prize winners they produce or hire as professors. </p>
<p>ELITE - Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, Penn, Chicago, Duke, MIT, Caltech, Oxford, Cambridge (aka top 10 + 2 british schools)</p>
<p>i hate how people dont consider international schools elite…its just backwards thinking</p>
<p>^Does anyone else find it wrong that only 0.25 % (10 out of 4000 +degree granting institutions) deserve the title “elite”.That means out of every 400 schools, only 1 can be considered elite. That is insane. A 0.25% acceptance rate into the"elite" category? Even if we are being extremely selective, why cannot at least 1 out of every 100 be considered elite? That would place the top 40 US schools as elite, making it the top 1 % of schools.</p>
<p>maybe caltech and chicago should be included in my list of elite institutions… also, I was only talking about US schools. Finally, no, it isn’t wrong that only .25% of schools deserve the title elite, you need to be at 3σ or so.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Am I the only one who thinks that most of what you just listed is a qualifier in some way to being “elite”? I think your entire post (not just that quote) emphasized that Notre Dame has nowhere near the national draw of the Ivies, which I’ve said is the difference maker.</p>
<p>
Did you actually read any of your posts that he quoted? Every single one says that ND is not weaker than any school in terms of undergraduate education. The irony of your ad hominem attacks has become quite pathetic and is certainly doing more to shape my opinion of ND grads than your moronic attempts at formulating a logical argument.</p>
<p>
Oh the irony. Your skill in ignoring the many posts that absolutely pick apart your pathetic argument is laudable.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The real irony of your post is that its actually probably just as true in the reverse.</p>
<p>A school that may be overrated due to its love affair with the media and parents’ insistence on being able to say “My son/daughter got into school X”? That sounds a lot like Notre Dame to me.</p>
<p>Notre Dame is, after all, as you have so generously pointed out, the number 3 dream school for most parents. Its football team has an individual contract with NBC, to show solely its games. Each President gives a commencement address to its graduating Seniors.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that, as you’ve pointed out, when stacked up against even the lower Ivies, the stats really don’t quite measure up in almost any category. They’re not even playing by the rules the other Ivies are playing by, not reporting nearly as many scores–therefore bloating their numbers. I’ve mostly been mute on this conversation, but the Notre Dame homers are really getting their butts kicked. It seems like your answer to statistic evidence is “HYPS IS OVERRATED! NOTRE DAME IS INTERNATIONAL! HEARTLAND! MEDIA HYPE! IDIOTS!”</p>
<p>I think JohnAdams tends to be a pretty big ass about how he presents his arguments, and I would like to separate my view of things from his. But I do think the assorted arguments against Notre Dame as an elite school that have been presented on this thread have been better than the ones in support of Notre Dame. Its the best Catholic school. And its a great schoool. But as we’ve now seen, its not quite on the level of the lower Ivies.</p>
<p>Whether that means its Elite or not depends on what you classify as Elite.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You need more than two stock statements to continue to be entertaining.</p>
<p>Jersey, to the comic book collection!</p>
<p>Academic prestige isn’t the only factor that determines the “elite” status folks. Selectivity, beauty of campus, endowment per student, social/media prominence, etc. play a role as well.</p>
<p>Notre Dame is the best Catholic school. That alone confers it an elite status. It is the BEST in a certain category.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And that’s my point. It clearly isn’t on the level of the lower Ivies (as we’ve seen, so far) but its THE top Catholic school. So if you consider that to make it elite, than so be it–that’s an opinion that is going to vary from person to person–but as far as the comparison goes to the lower Ivies, we’ve seen so far it hasn’t been able to stack up.</p>
<p>Yeshiva U is the best orthodox Jewish school.
It is the BEST in this category, and if I follow the reasoning, I guess that means it is elite.</p>
<p>So please modify all your little lists accordingly.</p>
<p>And let’s not forget BYU…</p>
<p>@Shankapotamus: I would not put an “even” before Emory. It is a “New Ivy”, its part of the unofficial “Southern Ivy League”, its endowment (like Notre Dame’s) is huge, its classes are small, great student:faculty ratio, great programs in business, psycology, religion, languages etc., it has great medical, business and law schools. Emory and Rice are the only two top 20 schools that are listed as “schools on the rise”. Its undergraduate education, along with Northwestern, Rice and Notre Dame’s rivals the lower Ivies in many respects. I mean, Emory is ranked 17th and Brown is ranked 16th. How can you make a good argument that one is significantly better than the other? It would be like splitting hairs. But yes, I agree that Notre Dame is a great school… which is why I applied and was accepted. Anyways, I realized that I never made a proper list of schools that I think are elite. Here it is:</p>
<p>Elite Undegraduate Schools</p>
<p>This just includes national research universities and is in no particular order:</p>
<p>Definitely Makes the List</p>
<p>Emory, Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Caltech, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Northwestern, U. Chicago, Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, U. Penn, Rice, Vanderbilt, Wash U., Cornell.</p>
<p>Maybe Makes the List
Tufts, USC, W+M, maybe the top publics like UVa, Michigan, Berekely, UCLA … I probably missed some.</p>
<p>Mormons don’t have as much of an impact on American society as other religions and the really smart Jewish students in America go to the Ivies and other top private schools.</p>
<p>I think Notre Dame wins cross admit battles with every lower Ivy school and compares very well with HYP with regards to enrolling the top Catholic students.</p>
<p>Notre Dame is an elite university. End of discussion.</p>