Which school should I go to? (Class of 2012)

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>Berkeley is great. But Cornell will likely give better financial aid.</p>

[Columbia_Student]

<p>

What? It’s an intro class. Very basic material. The weeder courses tend to be in the lower-div courses that aren’t intro.

</p>

<p>Once you get to the upper-div, grades are much better than lower division course. They don’t call them weeder courses if they are for upper-div. And it gets better in graduate schools, very few people get Cs and Bs, and most people get As.</p>

<p>I also talked to several parents whose S or D went to one of the top UCs, very gung-ho about Engineering but ended up had to switch major to math or something like similar due to weeder courses. And don’t take it personally, it’s not just UCs but other state schools from other states as well. Sorry, mom and dad do network, we don’t want to pay more than we have to, but we don’t want them to struggle either.</p>

<p>I would vote for Cornell. Why pay OOS for UCB? It’s not worth it.</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>

Sorry, mom and dad do network, we don’t want to pay more than we have to, but we don’t want them to struggle either.

</p>

<p>Sure, but where’s the challenge? Everybody doesn’t deserve A’s.</p>

<p>Life lessons learned at top publics:

1. You have to be independent and seek out answers for yourself.
2. Life is not fair.
3. Welcome to the real world.</p>

<p>Berkeley “is a world-class university with a street-tough swagger”.</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>

but you also said that it doesn’t matter if students are taught by TAs or profs.

</p>

<p>for the basic material.</p>

<p>

In addition, you also mentioned that TAs often do a good job of teaching.

</p>

<p>I said sometimes they are better teachers than the professor. Please read what I say before challenging it.</p>

<p>

This should mean that your view on the TAs’ teaching is that they are at least as good, if not better, than the qualitiy of profs’ teaching. But, in reality, most profs teach much more effectively compared to TAs. This is really no comparison, at all.

</p>

<p>Again, even a mediocre grad student can explain the most basic concepts.</p>

<p>

don’t think you can make a generalization that all intro courses either at berk or cornell are ‘easy’, either.

</p>

<p>Again, you are making up what I’m saying. I never said that all intro courses are that way. I said they tend to be. In addition, I never said they were easy; I simply said they tended not to be the “weeder” courses (you don’t go from “weeder” to “easy” in one jump–there’s continuum): “The weeder courses tend to be in the lower-div courses that aren’t intro.”</p>

<p>

to point out a flaw with your logic that it doesn’t matter if the classes are small or large in students’ personal educational experience.

</p>

<p>I said it didn’t matter in the basic lower-div courses. In addition, why even bother comparing it to LACs? Neither Berkeley nor Cornell are going to offer what an LAC does, so yes, while LACs do offer a ‘smaller’ environment, you compare Berkeley and Cornell in the educational paradigm you’re given, not an ‘alternative’ for proving your point.</p>

<p>

class sizes do matter, often favoring small classes for students who desire to receive personalized education.

</p>

<p>That’s great. And as we can see, Berkeley offers slightly more small classes than does Cornell (proportionally). (Not to mention you don’t seem to be arguing for ‘small classes’ but a class of 300 versus one of 700).</p>

<p>

profs would be even better than TAs in explaining these ‘basic’ concepts to students due to their experiences in teaching, expertise in the field, etc.

</p>

<p>And you’re making a generalization there. (Notice that the most I said was “sometimes.”) I don’t agree, especially since they’re both research universities where explaining basic material usually isn’t high on their list of to-dos.</p>

<p>

I have come across several TAs that aren’t very capable of teaching effectively at all.

</p>

<p>And there are many, very seasoned professors who aren’t very capable of teaching effectively at all, too.</p>

<p>

The quality, in general, is different.

</p>

<p>Another generalization…</p>

<p>

I don’t see why you are tyring to argue this. Again, the point is that we were comparing the difference in qualities between small lecture courses taught by profs and discussion sections taught by TAs.

</p>

<p>You asked: “So, what makes them better than profs in their ability to give more personal attention to the students?” I answered.</p>

<p>

nyone would be able to access profs, just like they can access TAs, if profs taught in small lecture courses.

</p>

<p>That’s great. But unfortunately, that doesn’t happen at either Berkeley or Cornell. So the point is moot.</p>

<p>

Discussion meetings, in reality, don’t usually teach much new materials anyway and many students just feel obliged to attend, only to keep their grades up.

</p>

<p>I don’t think you can speak for all, or even a significant portion, of the undergrad bodies at either Cornell or Berkeley.</p>

<p>

This is the opposite of what happens in real life. Once you get to the upper-div, grades are much better than lower division course. They don’t call them weeder course if they are for upper-div.

</p>

<p>I didn’t say it wasn’t true. I said: the basic intro courses tend not to be the weeder ones. The lower-div non-intro courses usually are.</p>

<p>

Engineering but ended up had to switch major to math or something like similar due to weeder courses. And don’t take it personally, it’s not just UCs but other state schools from other states as well.

</p>

<p>Er, that’s common for even private schools. Engineering is hard. Hell, I’ve heard students at Stanford complain about the engineering courses that have harsh curves because everyone is so smart, thus weeding out many of them.</p>

[Brazen_Raisin]

<p>First off, thanks so much for all of the replies, they’re actually quite helpful and I really appreciate it (and I’m a girl, lol!).</p>

<p>There are a few other factors. I definitely do not qualify for any need-based aid, while I have been offered some merit-based aid already:</p>

<p>U of R I’m a finalist for full tuition (1/3 get it and the rest get something)
Northeastern I got full
McGill I got 3,000/yr, and it’s already less expensive</p>

<p>Despite being in a bad bracket for need-based, my family can’t realistically afford paying expensive private in full, as we have some other expenditures that don’t factor into the forms, etc. So that’s important, while absolutely not THE deciding factor.</p>

<p>Another thing is that distance from home really is not the biggest factor for me, so again, not THE deciding factor.</p>

<p>I do want a decent social life, so that much is nice at a lot of the schools, they seem to be work hard/play hard overall.</p>

[patlees88]

<p>

Again, you are making up what I’m saying. I never said that all intro courses are that way. I said they tend to be. In addition, I never said they were easy; I simply said they tended not to be the “weeder” courses

</p>

<p>After you said:

What? It’s an intro class. Very basic material. The weeder courses tend to be in the lower-div courses that aren’t intro.

</p>

<p>^^^ suggests that you meant to say that at an easy intro class, students shouldn’t be worried about weeding. Your intial statement and attitude towards intro class somewhat conflicts with what you say of it now.</p>

<p>

for the basic material.

</p>

<p>and, you said this after your initial statement on this subject, in which you said “TAs often do a fine job teaching. Hell, sometimes TAs are better teachers than the professors.” </p>

<p>^^as you see, no where from your initial statement does it mention anything about TAs teaching only in intro courses, but you said that TAs are sometimes better teachers than profs, not just in intro. I see that you twist your words around, which may confuse people reading your post. </p>

<p>

I said sometimes they are better teachers than the professor. Please read what I say before challenging it.

</p>

<p>With your logic, then, a high school teacher can sometimes be a better teacher than profs, at intro, since it is ‘basic’. Hell, even my mom could be sometimes better than profs in teaching, provided she learns the material enough to teach basic concepts since it is so basic. Really, your definition of a ‘good’ teacher is really skewed. This debate is utterly pointless.</p>

[Columbia_Student]

<p>

This debate is utterly pointless.

</p>

<p>It’s not a debate. It’s happy keyboarding. :D</p>

[delivery_man]

<p>i would easily pick Cornell on your list. But, if you do get into Hopkins, it will be a tough call…JHU has really good science program. But, congrats!</p>

[tonyspizza1800]

<p>berkeley all the way</p>

[CCmmjjgg1]

<p>From the information provided it seems to me like Cornell is a better fit for you. Plus from what i’ve heard from people at both schools, the Cornell students I know are generally happier than the Berkeley ones. But thats a generalization especially since i only know a few people from each school. If you really want to pursue neuroscience then I would definitely say Cornell b/c it has one of the strongest programs in the nation.</p>

[tonyspizza1800]

<p>cornell has the highest suicde rate in the country
i’m pretty sure they aren’t too happy
winters are brutal in ithaca
and being isolated on top of a hill and being treated more like a number than a student definitely does not help
choose berkeley if you know what’s good for you</p>

[patlees88]

<p>tonyspizza, cornell doesn’ have the highest suicide in the country. this is a myth. Go look it up online and you tell me. </p>

<p>

i’m pretty sure they aren’t too happy

</p>

<p>cornell is one of the most social schools in ivies and more people are happy than not. </p>

<p>

and being isolated on top of a hill and being treated more like a number than a student definitely does not help

</p>

<p>what!? so, you think that going to berkeley will help this person to feel less like a number? you gotta be joking.</p>

<p>

winters are brutal in ithaca

</p>

<p>OP is from NY. Ithaca weather won’t be a surprise to her/him, at all.</p>