<p>Columbia and Stanford come to mind?</p>
<p>Quote from Quiltguru:
"And my comment about the lack of faculty support for undergraduates at Harvard actually came from my D's friend who is a student there..."</p>
<p>As Nceph noted, it was your comment about Harvard's so called (rumored)competitive atmosphere among STUDENTS as compared to Yale's so called supportive one that we responded to,--- the issue of "FACULTY SUPPORT" was not at all what you mentioned in posts #16 and #9, nor was the issue of your daughter's desire for a particular double major.</p>
<p>It is always perplexing as to why there is this need to highlight a positive point about a school, let's say Yale, by juxtaposing it with a negative assumption about another school...let's say Harvard. It's as if, without such a comparison, the former school's attribute doesn't count.</p>
<p>One variable to consider is how many courses per semester you have to take. At some schools it's 5, and at some it's 4. Some might even require only 3. The theory is that the 4 classes will require more work per class than the 5 classes, but I'd be surprised if that's the way it actually work. Juggling 4 classes, even if they ARE a little harder, must be easier than juggling 5.</p>
<p>^You have to take into consideration though if the school follows the quarter or semester system. It really does make a difference if you learn material in 12weeks compared to 18!</p>
<p>This is sort of ot, but check out this Sunday's education section of the New York Times. There's an article entitled "The Incredibles" that talks about the general trend of high powered high school students relaxing in college, often finding college easier and less stressful than high school.</p>
<p>The semester vs. quarter system is a very valid point. It is not really the case that the same amount of materials is covered in 10 weeks vs. 13 weeks. I have looked at some syllabi for quarters and they do not cover quite the same amount. The big difference is in the rhythm of exams and papers. There is less time for students to catch their breath, so to speak, between mideterms, papers and final exams.
The Harvard system of having finals after the Christmas break may allow some students to slack off academically during the term and cram like mad during the Christmas break and in January. It really depends on the courses. It is impossible to slack off if you have problem sets every week, or response papers every other week.</p>
<p>One of the reasons it's easier to double major at Yale is that the minimum # of courses to graduate is 36 v. 32 at Harvard. I don't think it really means there's that much of a difference--if any--in the workload. It just means that it's easier to double major because even if your major requires 12 courses--the # varies--and there is NO overlap, you've still got 12 courses to use to fill distribution requirements and just plain experiment. Moreover, having discovered that it's possible to juggle 5 courses in a semester, plenty of Yalies do it every semester or at least more than the half required. So, lots of Yalies graduate with 38 or 40 courses. </p>
<p>I'm sure Harvard students do too; it's just that when 32 courses are the required number MOST students will take fewer courses than when 36 is the required number.</p>
<p>Of course, many students don't like the idea that they have to take 36 courses and see this as a disadvantage when they compare the 2 schools. </p>
<p>Anyway, this isn't meant to attack either school. I'm just trying to explain one of the differences between them which I think is relevant to those who want to double major.</p>
<p>A lot of students find college less stressful than high school is because they don't have their overbearing nagging parents all over them in college.</p>
<p>Jonri, that is indeed a good point. Until now, Harvard students wishing to "double major" had to do so through joint concentrations. And as far as I know, joint concentrations required a senior thesis combining the two majors. It's easy to do a senior thesis in say, history and East Asian studies. Not so easy doing one combining biology and East Asian studies. I think that in most departments, the senior thesis means having to take 16 courses (two of which would be taken up by the thesis). </p>
<p>I knew some students who did the pre-med program while majoring in something else altogether. It's doable. But they were not considered double majors. I've also met a young woman who took five courses per semester. I can't remember if she did a joint concentration. I know she did a four year AB/AM degree without using her AP credits for Advanced Standing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Moreover, having discovered that it's possible to juggle 5 courses in a semester, plenty of Yalies do it every semester or at least more than the half required. So, lots of Yalies graduate with 38 or 40 courses.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I took five courses at Harvard every year after freshman year because there were so many interesting things to take. I often took the fifth course pass/fail. I didn't think my workload was onerous at all. I wonder if Harvard's majors require the same number of courses as Yale's do. If they require fewer it would actually make it easier to double major as long as you were willing to take five courses per semester.</p>
<p>From what I understand of the requirements in a couple of departments at Harvard (subject to change when the curricular review is approved and implemented):</p>
<p>Core requirements: 7 courses, plus Expos + 2 semesters of a foreign language if the student did not place out = 8-10 courses.
Concentration (major) requirements: 12-16 courses (12 for non-honors, 16 for honors)
subtotal: 20-26 courses.
It leaves 6-8 electives for those who want to take honors.
In joint degree programs (such as physics and math), some courses may count double, especially of course, the senior thesis. Some tutorial requirements may also be waived.
It is indeed difficult to have double majors which are not joint degrees; this is why secondary fields have been introduced.</p>
<p>S has friends at MIT and Yale; they got together recently. Nobody seemed to be more frazzled than anyone else.</p>
<h1>4 kiddo is at P'ton and I swear he never has school!! Yes, he has 4 courses this semester and 5 in the spring but between fall break, t-day, winter break, intersession, school starting mid-september and the new semester starting in Feb. his sibs are beyond jealous. His sis is OOS and she started classes 8/10 and finished up 12/22. She had T-day and the day after and that was it. Son and daughter were just about the same has other sis, they all swear he is on vacation!!</h1>
<p>And he has said what other posters have mentioned that after having so much to do in high school that it isn't as frantic or harried in college. He is enjoying his classes much more, not so much busy work but rather problem sets, lab work, quizzes, tests and papers. He does have several study groups for math, chem and chem lab and spanish. He has been to his econ prof's house for dinner/dessert a few times and has a " thorough" (read naggy) advisor. He is also playing a sport but is loving it. Has found some nice people who can tolerate him! and they have been calling the house during break for homework "help" and basic "miss you" phone calls. I was suprised how quickly they all became friends and helpful to each other with some of those "nasty, nasty" classes, specifically the chem and math!</p>
<p>I asked him if he thought he made the right choice, since he had quite a few to pick from, and he spends a lot of time at Carolina and State while back at home and he was very quick to say YES. As more time passes he realizes how different his life is becoming and how much it is varying from his friends' here at home. His best buddy at the Point also feels the same. The work is hard but they aren't bored out of their minds as they were in high school.</p>
<p>He finally fits without having to work so hard at it. </p>
<p>It doesn't hurt that the school sees issues or problems before he or we do and fixes them without being asked. Upfront book money before he arrived on campus, help with transportation, honored his dorm requests completely, meal plan to-die-for, and professors that "get" him. Don't get me wrong, he truly valued high school and his community, but now...it is beyond anything he ever imagined. If he were to be asked "do you love your school?" he would say it isn't the right question. He feels "loved" by his school.</p>
<p>I was fearful he might have chosen the wrong path, but now I see how silly I was. And why he was just so sure. He said he knew, and there were so many reasons it was so right it was impossible to explain. But now I understand. He is enjoying being himself, more and more everyday.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>The discussion on the quarter/semester system is good, I think. I'm at a quarter school and find that it is a more intense environment than what my friends at other schools talk about. It feels like you're always having midterms or finals. I doubt this is true for all schools on quarters or all classes at those schools, but often the material covered is comparable to the material covered in a full semester, I think. On the first day of an intro econ class, my professor said that he was talking to his colleagues at other schools and found that they cover about 13 or 14 chapters in the semester. He preceded to tell us that we would be doing 20 chapters. It also depends on how many classes students are expected to take during the semester/quarter. At many schools with quarters students generally take three classes, but at other schools students generally take four classes. The same thing is true with 4 vs. 5 classes at semester schools. </p>
<p>You can also look for schools with long vacation times or frequent days off. Schools with more core/distribution requirements may be harder for a student focused on a single area who has trouble with, say, lab sciences or writing.</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman at Princeton and I agree with katwkittens that it seems like they have constant breaks in the first semester (and there's another one coming up at the end of this month). In terms of academics, as well as social life, she is extraordinarily happy. She constantly tells me that she loves Princeton (often saying that she is "obsessed" with it). Her teachers are terrific, she is in several study groups, no one seems to mention grades at all and the kids I have met (including her roommates) are down to earth, fun and extremely normal. I think that the kids at Princeton work reasonably hard, but I don't get the impression of a stressful, intense, competitive environment at all.</p>