Not sure looking at OOS populations for state flagships will tell you much, because most flagships have a the % of OOS students set by the state legislature, not by the school and not by how many interested OOS applicants there are.
I haven’t checked the endowment or meets-need pledges lately but one issue with Santa Clara is affordability/accessibility. Financial aid doesn’t come close to peer schools so that’s an a priori disqualifier for many. I’d say the same for Villanova.
@roycroftmom I wonder how many Texas high school students one knows to claim few are applying to both Baylor and Rice? I could name a dozen off the top of my head. I agree with @BearHouse. If you’re a top student in Texas and realistic about numbers, Rice is a reach based on the admissions rate and Baylor is a match that offers great scholarships and lots of opportunities. I agree that Baylor may be one “on the rise”–don’t discount the impact that Waco’s renaissance (thanks in large part to Chip and Joanna Gaines’ empire) is having on the school as well. A rising tide lifts all boats, and Waco has become a national destination in a way no one could have imagined 10 years ago. More people to Waco = more eyeballs on Baylor.
@YaleMomOf7 Agree with you regarding U of Nebraska. It seems like switching to the Big 10 conference has made it more noticeable to folks in the Great Lakes states, especially those whose own Big 10 school has more of a commuter vibe (Minnesota) or is expensive and/or not easy to get into (Illinois).
Other things that make UNL attractive are the generous out-of-state scholarships, the new dorms, & the ability to apply directly to the biz school; also, programs that not every school has, such as Advertising/Public Relations and the unique Raikes School (combines business & computer science).
Hyperbole, perhaps. In 2014, Nebraska-Lincoln enrolled only 142 freshmen from Minnesota and 144 from Illinois. The remaining Great Lakes states sent almost none: Wisconsin 28, Michigan 19, Ohio 7, Indiana 6, Pennsylvania (yes, it’s a Great Lakes state with a Big Ten school) 6.
I don’t think Minnesotans view UMN-Twin Cities as a “commuter school.” According to its CDS, 88% of freshmen live on-campus. A majority of undergraduates, 77.4%, live off-campus, but it’s not because they move back in with their parents after freshmen year. The vast majority live in off-campus student apartments within a few blocks of campus, . That pattern is common at a number of Big Ten schools, including Wisconsin (92% of freshmen but only 25% of undergrads live on-campus) , Michigan (98% of freshmen, 32% of undergrads), Iowa (92% of freshman, 28% of undergrads), and Nebraska (92% of freshmen, 39% of undergrads).
Some Minnesotans do prefer a more traditional college-town feel. The University of Minnesota can get drowned out a bit in the urban vibrancy of the Twin Cities. Those qualified for admission to UMN are mostly drawn to Wisconsin-Madison (758 enrolled freshmen from Minnesota in 2014), which is not only located in one of the great college towns but has the additional advantage that it offers tuition reciprocity to Minnesota residents. I think the main reason Minnesota students would choose Nebraska is that it’s easier to get into than Minnesota or Wisconsin (acceptance rate: Nebraska 75.3%, Minnesota 49.6%, Wisconsin 53.7%; middle 50% ACT Nebraska 22-28, Minnesota 26-31, Wisconsin 27-31). I’d also note that Nebraska’s admit rate is essentially unchanged in the last decade, and its median ACT scores are exactly the same in 2016-17 as they were in 2006-07, so there’s no evidence that it’s becoming more selective.
It’s true that many Illinois residents leave the state because of the high cost and admissions difficulty of UIUC. But a comparative trickle end up at Nebraska, with far more going to the public flagships in Missouri (1,437 enrolled freshmen from Illinois in 2014), Iowa (1,378 at U of I, plus an addition 853 at Iowa State), Indiana (1,016 at IU, plus an additional 497 at Purdue), Wisconsin (599), Michigan (362 at UM, plus an additional 335 at Michigan State), Kentucky (344), Minnesota (339), and Ohio State (220). The only Big Ten schools that draw lower totals from Illinois than Nebraska are Rutgers, Maryland, and Penn State.
I don’t mean to knock Nebraska, It’s a pretty good school in many ways. But it’s a stretch to say it’s on the rise.
“Rankings” are subjective and at best a lagging indicator. Better to research schools that are investing in their academics and quality of student life (aren’t those the two most important aspects of the college experience). Worrying about USNWR or Forbes ranking, or OOS applications, or admission % is simply noise. Example: Northwestern University recently finished close to a $4B raise. $200MM of that went towards revamping their computer science curriculum, facility and hiring 20 additional professors. Looking at rankings, their computer science doesn’t seem that competitive. Though entering freshman get new facilities, new research opportunities, and (assuming) professors at the forefront of the field. In short, numbers can tell any story you want them to tell. Do some more digging on where colleges are investing.
Of course, @AltaSki64 . This post is a way of hearing about schools that might not yet be on people’s radar yet. If someone’s interest is piqued (I know mine is) they can do further research.
@ bclintonk You attack my post with stats from 2014? Why don’t you go back to 1914? I’m sure the stats from 104 years ago will support your claims even more than the ones from 4 years ago. Did you ever consider that their ACT scores haven’t gone up, and their acceptance rate has remained about the same because their enrollment is increasing?
@moooop, it wasn’t intended as an “attack.” I used 2014 data on where entering freshmen came from because it’s it’s the latest data set available. That data comes out once every four years; the 2014 data was published in 2016. All the other data on admit rates, ACT scores, etc are from the colleges’ most recent Common Data Sets, 2017-18, comparing CDS data from 10 years earlier.
I did consider that increasing enrollment is likely a major cause for the flat selectivity measures at Nebraska, though I didn’t mention it in my previous post… Applications to Nebraska have increased by 55.7% in the last decade. Impressive, but the same (or more) is true at many Big Ten schools—Minnesota up 67.5%, Illinois up 80.4%, Iowa up 88.9%, Ohio State up 112%, Michigan up 118% over that same period. But most other Big Ten schools have used their larger applicant pools to become more selective: ACT scores at Minnesota went from 24-29 to 26-31, and at Ohio State from 25-29 to 27-31, putting those schools on the same plane as Wisconsin and Illinois. Meanwhile, Michigan pulled into a commanding lead, with ACT scores going from 27-31 to 30-33, while its acceptance rate was cut almost in half, from 50% to 27%. Nebraska has instead chosen to become larger while keeping admissions standards more or less constant. I’m not faulting them for that—it’s a perfectly reasonable choice for a large public university to make. And to the extent the increase is coming from OOS enrollment (23% in 2017-18, up from 17% in 2007-08) , it might mean more net tuition revenue per student, which if spent wisely could lead to other kinds of real qualitative improvements.
But like many others, I don’t count increased size itself as an improvement—and it can have disadvantages. In 2007-08, Nebraska’s student-faculty ratio was 19 to 1. In 2017-18 it was up to 21 to 1. That’s not an improvement. And while the total number of classes Nebraska offers has remained constant, the number and percentage of small classes has actually shrunk a bit (926 classes with fewer than 20 students out of 2403 total classes in 2007-08, down to 846 small classes out of 2401 total in 2017-18), while the number and percentage of large classes has increased over the same period (327 classes of 50+, including 160 of 100+ students in 2007-08, up to 439 classes of 50+ including 193 classes of 100+ in 2017-18). A higher s-f ratio, fewer small classes and more large classes are not improvements in my book. But again, there could be countervailing qualitative improvements that don’t show up in these quantitative measures.
One hopeful sign is that the 6-year graduation rate is up a bit, from about 62% a decade ago to around 68% for more recent classes. But this is still well behind most other Big Ten schools—Minnesota 80%, Illinois 82%, Wisconsin 87%, Michigan 91%.
Bottom line, I have a hard time seeing in what sense Nebraska is either “underrated” or “on the way up,” though I could be missing something from this distance.
@AltaSki64, agree that USNWR and Forbes rankings are subjective and should not be used exclusively, but they do provide some information and context. I agree that money raised and new facilities are more important, which is why I mentioned increased fund raising and the new business school complex (3 buildings) completed this year at UGA. In addition, the Provost, who I met a couple months ago, has been committed to hiring more faculty, continuing to increase admission stats, and a strong commitment to the Honors program.
I would add one more factor, which on the surface seems superficial. A school’s athletic program, although maybe should not be the case, can attract bright students, faculty, and put a school in the national spotlight. This was the case for the University of Southern California which went from a local urban vocational university in the seventies to the national stage in less than 20 years. Of course, this was not solely due to the athletic program, but many donors continue to take pride in the athletics. UGA had a great season last year, making it to the national championship. It will continue to get exposure this year and in my view is a good thing for the athletic department and academically.
Funny
This thread started out so great and had so much potential.
It would be nice if we could get back on topic.
ETA: I was following this thread because my S19 is not a top student. He has no chance at acceptance to a top 50 school and very low chance at a top 100. So where are we looking? Top 101 and beyond. I’m hoping to learn of an underrated, under the radar school that is on the way up due to institutional improvements (more funding, better facilities, better faculty, etc.).
Keep the thoughts coming.
@STEM2017 , I agree. I found this link: http://www.businessinsider.com/most-underrated-colleges-in-america-2015-10
Buzzfeed also has a list of 27 underrated colleges which has some good choices. Can’t link it. Both lists are worth looking at.
@stem2017 My 2014 S was a B student and ended up at U Kentucky which seems completely underrated to me. They have a beautiful new science building, new student center, most of the housing/dining is new and the library is incredible.
My son has met a good mix of kids from different backgrounds and he loves the city of Lexington and school spirit. And he is certainly academically challenged.
From my biased viewpoint, UKY is working hard to “be on the way up”
" I’m hoping to learn of an underrated, under the radar school that is on the way up due to institutional improvements (more funding, better facilities, better faculty, etc.)."
@STEM2017 , let me add to the chorus that this sentence perfectly describes Rowan.
https://sites.rowan.edu/henryrowan/gift/index.html
https://www.youvisit.com/tour/rowan
Also, my alma mater, Syracuse, has excellent facilities, recent improvements, and a reasonable bar for acceptance to the College of Arts and Sciences. I believe it to be slightly under-ranked as they do not play the game well but of course I don’t care because rankings don’t matter! lol… (at least I admit my contradictory stance)
Adrian College in Michigan.
Small liberal arts college. Most buildings on campus have been renovated in the past 15 years.
44 Athletic teams. NCAA D3 level and have “other sports” like Figure Skating, Bass Fishing, Equestrian, Acrobatics & Tumbling, 4 men’s hockey teams (NCAA D3, ACHA D1, D2, and D3) and 3 women’s hockey teams (NCAA D3, ACHA D1, D2)
Pre-health program with two full bodies in the cadaver labs.
Tons of financial aid opportunities through grants and scholarships.
17:1 student to professor ratio
Students continue on for graduate and medical school to Boston University, University of Michigan, Michigan State, University of Colorado Denver, University of Illinois, Notre Dame, John Hopkins University College of Nursing, University of Melbourne,
Carnegie Mellon, Duke University, and many others.
Free application, no essay.
I hear a lot of chatter here in southern California about Gonzaga, which seems to be on more students’ lists. I’ve heard a lot of anecdotal positive reviews about the community spirit and even about the climate, which is sunnier than Seattle to the west. Relatively small student body but with their D1 sports, provide plenty of school spirit.
I’d say DePauw University gets less attention than it deserves and so could be considered a sleeper. May suffer from being chronically confused with larger urban DePaul University. Small community emphasizing liberal arts. Has a commendable A financial ranking from Forbes, so well-resourced despite being under the national radar.
The list @Lindagaf posted from Business insider is very tech heavy because one of the criteria was mid career salary. Plenty of nice schools, but tech heavy.
@ACAdmiscouns Adrian offered my son a terrific financial aid package in 2012, too, and the music dept professors we met were great.
what sort of school is your S19 looking for?