@collegehelp Really interesting and helpful information. Just wondering if there is any way to include ACT scores in the equation? Some applicants, especially in the Midwest, lean heavily toward ACT usage, so would this list accurately reflect a rise at a school such as the University of Minnesota?
Yes I read the article, @barrons . If you think Rankings=Quality, then you are correct, as Cantor admits she hates the rankings (as do I and many people here on CC).
As usual, @Lindagaf is right and I will not comment on this again to avoid derailing.
@TwinMom2023 U Richmond offered fantastic aid for our kids (one just graduated, one entering.) They came in a grand less than our EFC consistently. We are a very straight forward case. No divorce, no private business, no multiple properties. On top of that, they pay for one internship that saved us several grand. They have generous travel abroad stipends and opportunities for additional scholarship to cover things like income lost when you usually work but can’t abroad. They also have living learning communities with school sponsored travel as well. Regular financial aid was good and then she picked up an endowed scholarship sophomore year along with a departmental scholarship that carried her to graduation. They allowed her to stack those scholarships and then came thousands less than our Efc. We are lower middle class. Don’t qualify for grants in our state systems but Richmond came in much lower cost for us even including travel.
^^^ I would have loved for any of mine to go to U of R, but they all wanted to get further away. I don’t blame them - just love the school and glad so many others do too. We walk the campus often.
@lindagaf Was happy to see both Seton Hall and George Mason on that list of underrated schools from Business Insider. Seton Hall in particular seems to get a bad rap but its Diplomacy school is on the rise.
@turtletime Wow. Great to know. Thank you.
Pomona College- let me clarify, this is already an elite college. However, it’s not the mainstream popular school to apply to from the perspective of high school students, parents and counselors. Word is starting to spread since the school has seen year on year increase in applicants while their peer schools like Amherst and Williams have remained flat. There is also a shift at the school with higher percentage of the student body in STEM so I expect more recruiting from Silicon Valley. Lastly, early feedbacks of new president, G. Gabrielle Starr have been very positive. Her experience with raising the profile and donations during her time as Dean of NYU’s school of Arts and Science will be key at Pomona. She will upgrade Pomona College’s marketing and donation efforts.
Denison. One ‘n’.
Northeastern should probably be listed with a foot note.
https://www.capstonewealthpartners.com/the-gaming-of-college-rankings/
The precentage of the admitted class is that is international students has been increasing and now stands at 20%
The delayed enrollment program called “N.U. in” was started in Fall 2007 and by 2017 1,100 students participated - the majority of which are delayed admits.
According to the 2017-2018 CDS, Northeastern enrolled 3108 students in the Fall of 2017.
So, Northeastern’s reported SAT scores no longer include the bottom 20-40% of the distribution.
The president of Northeastern came from USC, which has a similar delayed admissions program.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_University
https://provost.northeastern.edu/uds/facts/common-data-set/
My daughter loved Northeastern after her tour and it currently sits at the top of her list but jeez, they are shameless when it comes to their desire to climb the rankings. The above is beyond simply playing the game - it’s downright deceptive. Why doesn’t USNWR simply close these gaping loopholes?
In one sense it hurts the school, as many who would likely fit comfortably into the actual grades and test ranges (rather than the gamed stats) might not apply for fear of reaching too high. Someone tell me I’m misreading this so I can let go and embrace it for what it is: an excellent school on the rise.
@OCDaddy there are a lot of flaws with the USNWR rankings and many schools play numbers games like those noted above. I am not condoning it, but I am not sure there is a way to stop it. I only know a handful of kids that went to NE - they are smart and loved it. I quickly tried to find outcomes data but didn’t really see an all-encompassing report.
@OCDaddy just to use 2 data points here which may or may not mean anything - my 2016 D got in, Neuroscience, 3.6uw 34 ACT via ED. My 2018 S got waitlisted (but cleared) RD, CS Cybersecurity, 3.7uw, 35 ACT, 1540 SAT. Admissions did get a lot tougher this year, judging from a lot of high rated kids who got waitlisted or outright rejected.
Northeastern draws a lot of applications from our MD HS. 46 in 2016; 54 in 2017; and 59 in 2018. Senior enrollment is around 460. Average stats from Naviance 3.67 UW GPA and 1395 SAT.
The only other out of state schools that draw more applications are Michigan, NYU, Penn State, Tulane, UNC, UVA and Pitt.
@OCDaddy I also have serious issues with Northeastern’s shameless climb of rankings. I’m fine if others want to go there. You know: find your bliss. But there’s a hard-nosed aggressiveness about that school that I really can’t stomach.
Here’s an article about it–
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/
To my mind there are several other places with co-ops and decent academics with a nicer atmosphere than the hyper-aggressive bank or car-sales-lot that is Northeastern. They include –
RIT
University of the Pacific
Stevens
Drexel
U of Maine at Orono
and several others.
Northeastern student here - While the gaming is certainly real (a bit of a on-campus joke here that anything is done for the rankings), I think the range differences including NU.in and international students are overexaggerated. They likely only shift the ranges down by 1 ACT point or so (so 33-31 instead of 34-32, etc). This is from my personal experience talking to friends that are NU.in or international students, as no official data is actually available on it. Northeastern’s ranking rise is one of many inches, not a large single stat jump in one area. I don’t think the ranges would turn anyone away that is qualified for the school. You can check the admissions thread from past years as well to get an idea of the stats of NU.in admits.
As much as Northeastern is focused on rankings, there are some things that have always been in the school’s DNA - co-op is over 100 years old and the practical philosophy behind it drives a lot of the school, both in professors, students, and administration. The opportunities and academics are all at the level of the rank in my experience. I’d even make a case that many schools are at similar levels and that rankings make it seem like the schools are so different when in reality the difference is more in opinions of others.
I think Northeastern is starting to settle in ranks (after all, how far up is possible even? Moving the rankings inside the top 25 is very hard to do. I suspect this conversation and the rankings focus itself will fade a good deal in the next 10 years given time. Northeastern got a lot of scrutiny for the jump mainly from 2010-2015 when they became “the new kids on the block”, especially as a school with a practical focus that much of classical academia is not a fan of.
Colorado School of Mines…great education, graduates immediately employed, close to Denver and mountain recreation. 5 stars from everyone I’ve known who’s gone there.
Colleges that increased ACT scores by at least 3 points 2003 to 2016.
ACT increase, ACT midpoint 2016, name of school
08 33 Northeastern University
08 24 Southern University and A & M College
07 24 Becker College
07 19 Paul Quinn College
06 22 Alice Lloyd College
06 29 Pepperdine University
06 27 Florida Southern College
06 27 George Mason University
06 24 Robert Morris University
05 25 Champlain College
05 24 Notre Dame of Maryland University
05 34 Vanderbilt University
05 31 University of California-Los Angeles
05 30 Santa Clara University
05 29 University of Washington-Seattle Campus
05 26 Manhattan College
05 25 Seton Hall University
05 24 Worcester State University
05 22 University of Arkansas at Little Rock
04 34 University of Chicago
04 33 Johns Hopkins University
04 31 Villanova University
04 30 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
04 30 University of Tulsa
04 29 The University of Texas at Austin
04 29 University of Denver
04 28 University of California-Davis
04 28 Muhlenberg College
04 28 University of South Carolina-Columbia
04 26 University of Houston
04 25 Nova Southeastern University
04 25 SUNY Maritime College
04 23 Saint Martin’s University
04 23 Iona College
04 21 Castleton University
04 21 Olivet College
04 34 University of Pennsylvania
04 34 Columbia University in the City of New York
04 33 Brown University
04 33 Carnegie Mellon University
04 33 Tufts University
04 32 Colby College
04 31 Stevens Institute of Technology
04 31 Colorado School of Mines
04 30 Denison University
04 30 University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus
04 29 Ohio State University-Main Campus
04 29 Fordham University
04 29 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
04 28 University of San Diego
04 28 Baylor University
04 28 University of Alabama in Huntsville
04 28 Seattle University
04 28 University of California-Santa Cruz
04 27 The University of Tennessee-Knoxville
04 27 The University of Alabama
04 26 University of South Florida-Main Campus
04 25 Temple University
04 25 McDaniel College
04 25 Liberty University
04 24 Virginia Commonwealth University
04 24 University of New Hampshire at Manchester
04 24 LIU Post
04 23 Morehead State University
04 23 Jacksonville State University
04 22 Mount Saint Mary College
04 22 Siena Heights University
04 21 University of South Carolina-Beaufort
04 20 Tougaloo College
04 19 University of Maryland Eastern Shore
03 33 Cornell University
03 32 Claremont McKenna College
03 32 Case Western Reserve University
03 32 Grinnell College
03 31 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
03 31 University of Virginia-Main Campus
03 30 SUNY at Binghamton
03 29 Rochester Institute of Technology
03 29 University of Georgia
03 28 Loyola Marymount University
03 28 University of Vermont
03 27 Simmons College
03 27 Duquesne University
03 26 University of San Francisco
03 26 University of Cincinnati-Main Campus
03 26 Christopher Newport University
03 25 Arizona State University-Polytechnic
03 25 University of Alabama at Birmingham
03 24 Georgia Southern University
03 24 Randolph-Macon College
03 24 Florida Gulf Coast University
03 24 Murray State University
03 24 University of Louisiana at Lafayette
03 24 Anderson University
03 24 Wayne State University
03 23 University of La Verne
03 23 Eastern Kentucky University
03 22 Charleston Southern University
03 22 Delta State University
03 22 Tuskegee University
03 22 Old Dominion University
03 22 Cazenovia College
03 21 Limestone College
03 21 Alvernia University
03 33 Northwestern University
03 33 Haverford College
03 32 Georgetown University
03 32 Wellesley College
03 32 University of Southern California
03 30 University of Miami
03 30 George Washington University
03 29 Brigham Young University-Provo
03 29 Lafayette College
03 29 Sarah Lawrence College
03 28 Purdue University-Main Campus
03 28 Transylvania University
03 28 Bentley University
03 28 Chapman University
03 27 Florida State University
03 27 Indiana University-Bloomington
03 27 Auburn University
03 27 University of Dayton
03 26 Mills College
03 26 University of Louisville
03 26 Lawrence Technological University
03 26 University of Mississippi
03 25 Howard University
03 25 Andrews University
03 25 Quinnipiac University
03 25 University of Detroit Mercy
03 25 North Greenville University
03 24 Louisiana Tech University
03 24 William Carey University
03 24 The University of Tennessee-Chattanooga
03 24 Oakland University
03 24 Kuyper College
03 24 Meredith College
03 23 Xavier University of Louisiana
03 23 Northwest University
03 23 University of Southern Mississippi
03 23 Florida Atlantic University
03 23 The University of Texas at San Antonio
03 23 University of Louisiana at Monroe
03 22 McNeese State University
03 22 University of Southern Indiana
03 22 Central Baptist College
03 22 Hampton University
03 22 Lynn University
03 22 Ursuline College
03 21 The College of New Rochelle
03 20 Truett McConnell University
03 19 University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff
@lastone03 Flaws, sure. And some tuning to get a boost. I don’t have an issue with Northeastern sizing some of their classrooms to sync better with the (somewhat arbitrary) USNWR categories. But the act of essentially hiding selected (and ostensibly inferior) metrics by shipping those kids overseas is pretty extreme, don’t you think? I mean, do they even offer a rationale? We love THESE kids so much we’re shipping them away immediately!
Anyway, thanks @PengsPhils . Appreciate your impassioned response.
@collegehelp where did you find the list you posted?
While rankings are certainly a factor in the creation (if not the source of) the program, there are things that make NU.in students good for students (a great opportunity to go abroad before it interferes with major requirement classes being a big one) and makes sense for the school. Since Northeastern works on co-op’s, there are a lot of people who graduate in December and a lot of spaces become available on campus as a result. NU.in fills those spots on campus in spring that wouldn’t otherwise be there in Fall. It’s possible that other schools with similar programs (BU and USC among others Emory) use it in the same way.
I think it’s important to distinguish between admissions/administration and students/professors. The former would fit the description a bit, the latter not at all. The environment described isn’t one students or professors will experience.