Agree about Denison, in spades. That president!
I’d add Chapman to the “on the rise” list, too.
@hudsonvalley51 On Denison meeting full need, I don’t know whether there has been a specific change in policy or whether it had been doing that before. I did a quick search, and in 2013 it was not on a list of schools that meet full need but in 2015 was on that same list on a “college solutions” site.
I would trust the school site over other sources that compile information. US News can run several reporting cycle behind, as it shows Denison acceptance rate as 44%, while I think it was 38% for class of '21 and 34% for the incoming class of '22.
SCU is handicapped in terms of national recognition because – they don’t grant enough PhDs (less than 20). But they are expanding their doctoral programs, and if they can hit that threshold, they’ll be set. Here’s the logic:
- The USN&WR rankings group schools by their Carnegie Classification (CC). The USN&WR "National Universities" category represents schools that are classified as "Doctoral Universities" in the CC.
- But SCU isn't regarded as a "Doctoral University" in the CC. Therefore USN&WR puts SCU in the "Regional Universities West" category with CSUs like Cal Poly SLO -- and *not* in the "National Universities" category with the UCs. Note that SCU is close to the top of the "Regional Universities West" ranking, ahead of Cal Poly.
- Out-of-staters who are looking for a school in California are much more likely to review the "National Universities" ranking than the "Regional Universities West" ranking. So they tend to overlook SCU. In the same way, Cal Poly gets much less national recognition than UCs, even though Californians know that CP is a worthy UC alternative.
- The CC, which is updated every 5 years, classifies schools as "Doctoral Universities" if they grant at least 20 research doctorates annually. If SCU hits this threshold, they will be reclassified as a "Doctoral University" by CC, and therefore as a "National University" by USN&WR.
- If SCU is reclassified as a "National University" in the USN&WR rankings, its national visibility will greatly increase.
We can only speculate about SCU’s potential place in the “National University” rankings. My guess is that they could make the Top 50, comparable to mid-tier UCs.
iIf this sounds implausible, consider that another Catholic school, Villanova University, was recently reclassified by USN&WR in exactly this way, from the top of the “Regional Universities East” ranking to the “National University” ranking. Villanova now sits at #46 in the “National Universities” ranking, tied with UC Davis. Villanova and SCU are considered peers in the Catholic school community.
Another vote for U Richmond. Big endowment that they are actively using on students. Richmond Guaruntee, Sophomore scholars with free travel experiences, interesting majors, a new entrepreneurial business minor for non-business majors. It gets criticism for not enough merit awards but their financial aid is strong. Most on the West Coast have never heard of it but when comparing schools, we kept coming back to Richmond.
All the lower tier UC’s will rise as UCB, UCLA, UCSD get more and more competitive.
@Corbett According to the 2017-18 CDS, SCU awarded 16 doctoral degrees (7 engineering, 9 theology) in 2017.
I just saw on the Carnegie website that the update cycle is changing to 3-yr and there will be a new update by the end of 2018. However, that update relies mostly on older data, so it’s unclear whether SCU would be able to make the jump.
Carnegie is considering a change:
If they count JDs in doctoral, then SCU would move up.
If my junior heard correctly at a loud college fair, the SCU rep stated that the business school acceptance rate this year was 24%.
I wonder what idiosyncrasy of the US News ranking system put Pepperdine tied with Villanova when Nova’s test scores are so much higher.
Since we’re on the topic of Silicon Valley area schools on their way up, SJSU deserves mention.
My brother went to Appalachian State many many years ago. The alumni network in the southeast is terrific but the OOS cap on enrollment will keep it from becoming a national breakout. It qualifies as a hidden gem, especially for students who want to live and work in Atlanta, Nashville, or anywhere in NC after they graduate.
Definitely Rowan U in southern NJ. There has been lots of Investment in facilities and programs, particularly engineering, medical/health/bioscience, and business. Over the last five years, it has become much more well known in the region, and is shedding its image as a local cummuter school.
Wake Forest has the prefect mix of spirit, size and academic opportunities and support. It is starting to attract from a a much broader geographical area. The faculty and students are very impressive. The campus is gorgeous. I think this school will continue to become more popular and recognized as the trend towards applying to schools in the south continues.
I think Pepperdine is probably wealthier than Villanova (or SCU). I don’t have the full rankings in front of me, but I’ll bet Pepperdine ranks higher in USN&WR categories like “Financial Resources” and “Faculty Resources”.
But if Pepperdine can rank as the #46 “National University”, then you have to wonder how SCU would fare in that category. SCU may not be as wealthy as Pepperdine, but it has a number of other compelling advantages:
- SCU has significantly higher test scores than Pepperdine.
- SCU has a much better reputation for STEM than Pepperdine.
- Pepperdine's Malibu campus is lovely, but SCU's Silicon Valley campus is in a far better location for internships and recruiting in tech and business.
- Pepperdine requires regular chapel attendance. At SCU, religion is available but basically optional.
Pepperdine is a great fit for some people, but I would bet that SCU’s potential appeal, on a national basis, is much broader. If SCU moved to the “National University” category, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it achieved parity (or better) with Pepperdine. And given Pepperdine’s position in the ranking, this also implies parity with mid-tier UCs.
@Otterma – in some ways the OOS cap could help App State increase its profile. If more OOS apply (demand) but the slots (supply) are limited, the caliber of OOS student accepted will rise, creating a virtuous cycle (from the college’s standpoint) that could push up prestige and demand. Not sure this will happen, but it could. In the meantime, I agree it’s more of a hidden gem than a breakout. I checked and their test scores are lower than I expected. . .
I came on to say Rowan but I see it’s been added twice already!
Although my children didn’t apply, I am impressed with Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Cal Poly SLO is going to be on the map, if it isn’t already.
FSU. Low tuition with great opportunities for OOS students to get in-state tuition (currently ~$6,500/yr): OOS tuition wavers for GPA/test scores; First Year Abroad program that costs less for OOS first-year students to study abroad than to study in Tallahassee and then qualifies them for in-state rates.
The only thing that I see dragging FSU down is their College of Engineering. It has no formal co-op program and no formal study abroad opportunities. It’s located a couple miles from the FSU and FAMU campuses, and it feels like it’s managed completely independently from the two Universities that jointly operate the college.
An interesting article from 2016 on Drew as a turnaround candidate:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2016/08/03/turnaround-colleges-drew-drexel-bennington/#4318af924815
“This may not be the kind of rise you’re thinking of, but I think the public Us in states with state or lottery funded scholarships for high stat in-state kids will continue to rise.”
Agreed. I’ll mention Utah, which D18 has chosen (over Berkeley, UCLA and others). They have lots of money and brand new facilities thanks to big donors (most buildings are either Eccles this or Marriott that). PAC-12 sports, skiing close by and 30 full ride merit scholarships per year (not limited to in-state kids BTW). But they don’t even have a thread on CC!
Turning back to the more general question, I’m intrigued to see how the Berkeley/UCLA cross admit rate in CA changes this year. Anecdotally it seems to be running much more in favor of UCLA than in the past. Will UCLA be the clear number 1 public university in the next few years?
Re: SJSU
It has gotten very popular and very selective for some majors like CS, but some other majors still admit at CSU baseline eligibility.
For fall 2018 admission, here are some hypothetical applicants who barely make the cut for CS at SJSU:
4.33 GPA, 1270 SAT
4.03 GPA, 1510 SAT
GPAs above are by CSU calculation, corresponding approximately to 4.0 and 3.7 unweighted GPAs with enough honors/AP courses.
But the least selective majors admitted applicants that could have stats like 2.5 GPA and 950 SAT.
The only issue I see that might hold Cal Poly SLO back is having to declare a major during the application process and it being difficult to change later. It’s a great school but a lot of really strong students don’t apply because they don’t want to be locked into a major.
Cal Poly SLO is already on the map – if you are from California. If you are an out-of-stater hoping to go to college in California, then you may not have seriously considered Cal Poly, because:
(1) you just assumed that the UCs were the “best” public universities in California, and automatically dismissed all CSUs;
(2) you only looked at the USN&WR “National University” ranking (where the UCs are), and not the “Regional University West” ranking (where Cal Poly is);
(3) you flew out to California for college visits, but you couldn’t fit Cal Poly into your schedule because it’s too far from the major cities.
There are a number of other undergraduate-focused, STEM-oriented public universities that are much stronger than their regional reputations would suggest. Examples: Colorado Mines, New Mexico Tech, Missouri S&T, U Alabama Huntsville, and South Dakota Mines. Some of these, like Cal Poly or Colorado Mines, are great values for in-staters, but have much higher tuition for out-of-staters with little or no financial aid. Others, like New Mexico Tech or UAH, can be amazing deals for in-staters and out-of-staters alike, and deserve much more recognition for that fact.
I’ll wade in. Anecdotally, for Bay Area kids who are in the UCM/UCR admit range but want something different, I’ve seen a decent number lately go to University of Nevada -Reno. I doubt this one would appeal nationwide but for CA kids who want an affordable out-of-state option it’s worth a look (especially if you want to ski).
Fourth person here to cast my vote for Rowan U in NJ. In the next 10 years, if they can manage to shed their “commuter/suitcase” reputation, they will easily rise into the top 25 category of public engineering schools in the US.