Public schools in Texas are very affordable so yes they do attract more average students and middle class. Privates aren’t unless one is affluent or has merit or need based scholarships. However, good students with merit or aid options are increasingly flocking towards privates. There are certain programs at these two public schools which have more pull but not in general.
I’ll find the link with statistics when I have free time.
I don’t think there are many students applying to both Rice and Baylor. Very different types of students, with a 300 point gap in average SAT scores.
@NoKillli Will the New York State Train line stop in Ithaca or what is the route? That might help Cornell as well,
with access. Will the train go to Boston, or just NYC?
I believe this train @NoKillli mentioned is in western NY connecting all of the Buffalo campus. Ithaca is a bit of a trek east from there…and unless it’s some secret, there is no train line being planned between Buffalo, and Ithaca, that connects to the lines that connect to NYC and Boston.
The Holy Trinity in Texas is SMU, Baylor and TCU. These are the major religious privates that compete with each other for students. In Texas, coming from one of these colleges is meaningful. No, they are not Rice nor UT. But they don’t need to be.
SMU is aggressively secular with a minority of Methodists as students. Baylor is aggressively Baptist, and TCU in the middle claims to celebrate its spiritual diversity. I guess it depends on what circles you run in for these schools to be meaningful. I am sure to some they are.
Sorry about the confusion. The rail line is Buffalo’s Metro Line. The proposal is to extend the line from the UB South campus to the main North Campus. The Governor already funded the engineering portion. It will make the two campuses feel like one, especially if the north campus terminal is underground or fully enclosed. It should alleviate the parking situation. There is plenty of parking even for freshman, just not close to the academic center at 8-9AM like any other place.
Since there is a new interest in urban colleges here is a plug for the city of Buffalo which only makes the school more desirable. Last time I was there was in the early 1990s for business and it was a dump. I had to try wings from the original dumpy Anchor Bar and left as soon I could.
After dropping my kid off for 3 days of orientation, I explored the city. There are great neighborhoods, big malls in the suburbs, amtrak, airport for the NYC/LongIsland/Westchester crew, uber/lyft, AAA baseball, and NHL / NFL teams (UB students get the cheapest NHL tickets I have ever seen).
I rented a kayak and paddled around the harbor end erie canal. Another day I went to Niagara Falls and did the Maid of the Mist boat ride and went for a long run along Lake Ontario. I also went on a jet boat on the Niagara Gorge. The boat is powered by some gigantic engines and we were jumping in class 5 rapids. It was a blast. I didn’t have my passport, but Canada is right there and the drinking age is 19. I might have to bring my kid there for his first “Legal” when I drop him off next August. There is a Zoo I haven’t seen yet. There are also a lot of biking trails which I’m going to try, also in August. The Anchor Bar now has a nice location close to the North campus and the wings are still excellent. There is another wing place called Duffs which all the UB alum at work prefer. I like them both. There is also a good music scene according to people I know who are into those kind of things. My best guess is the city and surrounding area is big enough to support this.
I work close to the I Love NY Tourism Office.They should hire me after this post.
The snow is really not that bad either. I’m not saying there is no snow, but the big accumulations are way south of the city. Thats where the pictures you see are taken when there are big storms, never in the city.
Finally, they have Tim Hortons everywhere, even in campus center which takes flex “dining dollars”.
There is no easy way to get to Ithaca which is part of the charm, I guess. It’s a long drive from everywhere.
Lafayette really doesn’t count as “up-and-coming,” but it really impressed me, and I was a little bit disappointed that neither of my kids will end up there. But something pertinent to this topic: when we first visited Lafayette, some major construction (mainly a big arts center) hadn’t been completed. On our last visit, everything was up and running (and very impressive). Colleges that were already good and have recently completed important enhancements might be appropriate candidates for the “up-and-coming” list.
Agree with @Emmycat that the University of Georgia (UGA) in Athens is on the rise. First, she is right that UGA has become more selective, with GPA and standardized test requirements for early admission regular students and Honor students. We know very bright students who either did not get into UGA this year or who did not get into the Honors program. Heard the provost talk a few months ago about how this trend of increasing selectiveness is going to continue, with higher GPA and higher stat students choosing UGA. UGA has also been hiring new professors to get the student to faculty ratio down.
In addition, with schools like the University of Texas getting more and more overcrowded, along with only about 7% of the top students in Texas gaining admission, UGA looks more and more attractive for OOS students who want an affordable education in a great college town with school spirit. Athens checks off many boxes. UGA surpassed UT in the USNWR rankings for national colleges, this past year and I believe will be making its way into the forties in the next few years. UGA already is ranked #16 for top public universities and I think it will be moving up to the top 12 in the coming years as well. Ohio State is another one that, like UT, has over 40,000 undergrad students, which makes it hard to provide quality education for that many students.
Also, although perhaps it should not be the case, a successful football program tends to make more bright students want to matriculate from OOS, and clearly UGA is on the rise since last season’s national championship run. The University of Southern California was once a small fairly unknown university but gained national awareness through their sports programs. Although not a good reason to choose a college, school spirit does put schools on the map.
UGA has a very strong Honors Program and like U Alabama is getting noticed. They have a very proactive and organized department that recruits well and is very well organized.
Atlanta’s economy is booming and is still an affordable city to live in, rent, and for young professionals to be able to buy a house. The UGA Alumni Network is very strong in Georgia in particular, and in the South, in a city where there are many job opportunities.
UGA just completed a state of the art Business school complex with three new buildings which are across the street from one of the best dining hall facilities in the country. Terry Business School is making a name for itself and this new complex will attract many students interested in business. It doesn’t hurt that UGA consistently gets rated in the top ten for best food for college students. Also, there is a lot of top research in STEM being done at UGA. Although instate rival GA Tech usually gets the nod for STEM, Tech is known for grade deflation and many students are reportedly unhappy there in terms of overall quality of life.
As COA for “elite schools” continues to rise to obscene levels ($70,000, 75,000, and soon $80,000) families are getting smarter about where to put those college savings to work, such as grad school or other endeavors. As Emmycat suggests, many families are choosing to go instate or choose a more affordable OOS option, and put those dollars to work elsewhere.
Finally, innovative programs like “Doubledawgs” which allows students to pursue a Master’s degree in five years is also attractive. UGA also tends to accept AP credits where some other schools are more picky. This also makes it much easier to double major and/or study abroad without fear of not graduating in four years, unlike most UC schools in California where it is common to take more than four years, or for students who are paying $70,000 a year who worry that they may go more than eight semesters to graduate.
UGA has improved since the initiation of the HOPE and Zell Miller, about 15 years ago. Similarly, UA has “risen” since its aggressive scholarship and auto-admit approach, also at least 10 years ago. Would think as we consider schools “on the rise”, we look at schools that are making significant strides in the past few years. The other is sorta old news.
The following site shows changes in the USNWR national university rankings from 2008-2015:
http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2015/06/13/u-s-news-national-university-rankings-2008-present/
Schools listed below had positive ranking changes of at least 5 positions:
Net Change University
54 Northeastern
32 TCU
20 Massachusetts Amherst
17 Brigham Young
17 Florida St
15 Boston Univ
15 Clark
15 Univ at Buffalo
14 American
13 Drexel
12 San Diego
11 Vermont
9 Fordham
9 SMU
9 New Hampshire
9 Dayton
8 Stony Brook
8 Michigan Tech
6 Connecticut
6 Marquette
6 Oregon
6 Loyola Chicago
5 Columbia
5 Chicago
5 Clemson
@tk21769 was there data on which schools were “displaced?
Ranking changes, 2011-18
(http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2016/09/18/average-u-s-news-rankings-for-126-universities-2010-1017/)
Net Change University
30 NC State
29 Northeastern
28 Arizona St
24 UMass Amherst
23 Florida St
23 Univ at Buffalo
21 TCU
19 Boston Univ
17 Stevens Inst Tech
14 Brigham Young
14 Oklahoma
14 Loyola Chicago
13 Connecticut
11 Tulane
11 Florida
10 American
8 Oregon
8 Illinois Tech
8 South Carolina
7 Pepperdine
6 Chicago
6 Tulsa
5 Clark
How many of these were (or continue to be) “underrated”?
Depends on how you measure that, I suppose.
Suggestion: compare the USNWR peer/GC assessment scores (or some other subjective assessments) to the other USNWR statistics (or other CDS-derived metrics). Look for schools with a big upward trend in the latter, despite little/no/negative movement in the peer/GC scores.
@tk21769 , which San Diego, and which Connecticut? And your second list, are those colleges that went down in rankings? Some of them are in your first list, and the overlap is confusing.
The first list is 2008 to 2015. The second list is 2011 to 2018. I don’t understand the number to the left. Is
that the rank or the CHANGE in rank? Thanks.
There is a lot of historical data on rankings (liberal arts college and universities) here for anyone who is interested.
In posts 170 and 172, the number to the left represents a positive change in rank (the number of positions the school improved in rank). See the links I posted for more details. Schools that went down in rank also are listed.
I simply copied-and-pasted from the source, after sorting the lists.
Since the listed schools are all national universities, presumably it’s the University of San Diego and the University of Connecticut (main campus).
Again mostly Privates on the rise and Public’s on the decline.
The data sets mentioned-post #175-are very interesting.
U Richmond has moved around but was #40 LA in 2008 and now #23.
@roycroftmom While I was at Baylor, my first Thanksgiving away from home was spent with a next-door neighbor (in the dorms) who was muslim. I appreciated his hospitality. While I am not Baptist, I did not find Baylor “aggressively” so. And this was almost 30 years ago. I have family that attended TCU, SMU, Baylor, UT, Tech, North Texas (music) and A&M although none of us remain in Texas. Texan’s seem to me to be proud of where they attend and appear to enjoy the rivalries these colleges have had for about a century.
As far as the SAT spread is concerned, Baylor has about 3300 first years to Rice’s 980 first year. While I do not think they are in the same academic league, to suggest that Rice caliber students are not applying to Baylor assumes facts not in evidence. I do like to tell my kids our history of Texas education and add “none of us were smart enough to get into Rice.” According to the CDS, Baylor had roughly 20% of those students with SAT scores in the 700-800 range and Rice had about 80% in that range. So Baylor had close to as many students in the higher range of testing in terms of absolute numbers. However, Baylor has a larger class and greater “testing diversity.” So while the overall numbers show Rice is far more competitive, there will be some high stat kids that will choose a Baylor, TCU or SMU for other reasons. 