<p>1000 students is pretty small. We read reports on CC all the time of kids transferring from such schools because they turn out to be too small.</p>
<p>Note: whenever you observe this degree of agreement among CC parents, its time to reconsider your position.</p>
<p>Like others, parents can set the budget, but the kid needs to know what that budget is. Because of the vagaries of financial and merit aid, it’s not always possible to know ahead of time what that budget is. But putting that aside all the schools a student applies to should be ones that both the parents and students think are reasonable fits for the student. It’s okay to make the case for the school you like better, but the final decision should be his.</p>
<p>If you are worried he may be too much of a slacker in college you may want to make your expectations clear. “We will pay for four semesters.” or “We expect at least B grades, with a possible bit of slack first term for getting used to college.” </p>
<p>fieldsport -
thanks for responding and the more I think about and get feedback it’s definitely the right thing to allow him to make his own decision. $2000 is not a deal breaker as much as trying to guide him is important. But I certainly appreciate all the honest feedback and take it to heart.</p>
<p>LakeWashington -
I’m sorry that you think my question is “questionable” but this is the first time we’re sending a kid off to school and I thought it was more than appropriate to see what other parents & students experience during this process. If I’m wrong for that then I guess I’m wrong! As I stated in my response - we weren’t forcing him to choose any school - we were simply giving our opinion and I have a hard time believing other parents don’t express their thoughts/opinions on what they think is good for their kids. That said, I appreciate all the feedback and we will be supporting his decision. </p>
<p>mathmom -
I couldn’t agree with you more! We have definitely let him know we have expectations and he needs to meet them if he wants our continous support. I also agree with the term adjustment with limitations. </p>
<p>lmjohnson1966 - first let me say CONGRATS! to your son for deciding to go to college and getting in to the schools he wants to attend! We too are in the situation of never doing this before and having our only child go off to college next year. This is an amazing time and what I want to say is that you know you and your child best. Everyone keeps telling me he will end up where he needs to be, I pray every day they are right. (-: Hang in there and just know it will all work out. Sounds corny but I believe that to be true. Hey for whatever it is worth I did my first post on the parents forum recently and came to soon realize everyone has their opinions. Good luck!</p>
<p>You might ask your son to make a list of pros and cons for each of the schools still under consideration. Ask him to include the pros and cons you suggest. Then, have him thoughtfully weigh all the pros and cons, and then let him make the decision. That might take a bit of the emotion out of the decision.</p>
<p>I went to a HS with 1,100 kids in my graduating class, so I find these discussions fascinating (although somewhat like asking how many angels can dance on the head of the pin). What possible difference will it make to your son if he’s at the tiny school you prefer, or the small school he prefers? Unless there is a compelling financial or intellectual difference in the academic experience, this really seems to fall into the category of “his life, his choice”.</p>
<p>Do you actually know if the support system is better at the smaller school, or are you just going purely based on size? It might not sound like it, but 3800 students is still quite small. I would expect access to resources wouldn’t be significantly different between the two schools. The deciding factor at most schools is how much the student initiates contact and asks for help. I wouldn’t expect, based on size alone, that the smaller school will do more to catch your son if he’s failing or push him to succeed if he isn’t putting in the effort. Generally, all of the support services really only come into play if the student actively seeks them out. You may even find that the larger school has slightly more resources or more opportunities just because they have more students to support them.</p>
<p>If you’re concerned about your son slacking off, I think it would be a good idea to sit him down and discuss your terms for continued support for his education–a GPA or other grade requirement, a maximum number of semesters you’ll pay for, whether you’ll pay for summer classes or extra courses if needs to take them–and the consequences for failing to meet your requirements (paying you back, paying for any courses he needs to retake himself, taking a semester off, whatever you want).</p>
<p>It might also be a good idea for you to make sure he is aware of the support services at whichever school he ends up going to, so that if he does have trouble he knows exactly where to go. Check out tutoring centers or other academic support systems. Make sure he knows how to contact his adviser and gets a course plan in order. Let him know that he can always contact his professors or TAs for help and can usually make an appointment with them if he can’t make their office hours. Set him up for success, and he may surprise you.</p>
<p><1000 students is a very small school and could potentially go poorly both academically and socially for a student who doesn’t want to be there (or finds out later that it isn’t what he thought it would be). I wouldn’t recommend it unless he really wants to go there. Give him the chance to try a different environment, and make sure he knows that he’s the one who’s going to have to make it work whether the decision is a good one or a bad one.</p>
<p>From a student’s perspective, you should always let your child decide where he wants to go to college. I would HATE to be forced to go to a certain school by my parents. </p>
<p>30 years ago, I went to the college my parents wanted me to go to. I ended up leaving after 18 months. Granted, it sounds like your S was more involved/invested in the process than I was (I went on college trips and all, but I just didn’t really have much opinion or passion about it.) My parents, logically, assumed/encouraged me to go to the “best” school I got into. So I went. But really my dad was more excited about than I was.</p>
<p>I’ve often felt that I would have tried harder to make that school work for me had I been the one to choose it in the first place. But who knows…</p>
<p>Like everyone else, I’d let your son decide. I do like the idea, though, of doing another round of visits if that’s at all feasible. My D found that her opinions about schools changed pretty drastically after 1) actually sitting in on a class or two, and 2) staying overnight on campus. You just get a much better feeling for things than simply taking a tour and walking around campus.</p>
<p>OP, I think the whole point of a place like CC is to pose questions like yours. Otherwise, we could all just go to the FAQ site and be done with it. While I agree with the overwhelming sentiment posted here, it’s really helpful to have the additional information you provided. Sounds like your son is pretty much in a win-win situation here. He’s fortunate to have parents who want the best for him, hold him to account, and are allowing him to pursue his dreams.</p>
<p>I posted a somewhat similar question last year for a friend whose son always wanted to be a doctor but had a history of some LDs. His mother felt his best chances for fulfilling HIS dream was to go to a smaller school (a 2000-person LAC with a strong pre-med program), which her son LOVED and thought was perfect when he visited. But then he got into the huge (and hugely popular) state flagship and was “done.” </p>
<p>Everyone here pretty much agreed that it was “his” choice and she was a helicopter mom, yadda yadda yadda. </p>
<p>Well, fast forward a year, and while he’s done well (and advocated for himself valiantly), he bagged pre-med and changed colleges and majors within the university after only one semester. He just felt too overwhelmed by the pre-med track. And now he wants to join a fraternity, so he can have a better “social life,” something neither of his parents is keen on. </p>
<p>This, of course, doesn’t mean things won’t turn out great for him, or that he wouldn’t have had similar challenges in the smaller school, but it does show that a parent’s intuition about her kid isn’t always off base. We’re talking about the difference between 2,000 and 30,000 undergrads, not the choice your son has. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, in the end, the general consensus advice is most likely still the best: Let your child make the final decision (assuming it’s affordable), hold him to account, and take a deep breath! And good luck!</p>
<p>Just so you know, our dd has issues with ADHD. We supported her in many ways through high school, and she chose a school with over 30k kids. I would admit that we could be described as helicopter parents at times when she was growing up. . We were nervous when she left and moved 3000 miles away, but she raised her grades to a very high level as soon as she hit the door, and has been both happy and successful. Someone on this site gave us fantastic advice for this transition, which I want to share with you. One, once they leave home, your job changes from a nudger/confronter/rewarder to a consultant and memory bank. When they call with an issue, remind them of a time that they solved a similar problem effectively. Be consistent in your admiration. Know that when they call with a problem,they are venting and you don’t need to solve it. never, never bring up the problem again unless they bring up themselves, as typically it is over and done with. If they don’t ask for advice, listen. If they do ask for advice, be liberal in “well, you know the situation better than I” and add phrases like “some people might” or “one thing I have tried” but always end with…“I am only one resource for you…if you are concerned are there other people you could consult?” Two, know that when they return home, and for some people the summer before they leave, things can be very rocky. Expect it. It’s completely appropriate developmentally…they are defining themselves without you just like in the terrible twos. Plan for it, let your other kids know it’s a possibility, and enjoy the amazing growth!!! Celebrate every good decision!</p>
<p>I would make it clear that the money have to be in before the final decision can be made, because some surprise big money can’t be disregarded. But if it is a small difference only I absolutely am with the rest of the parents that it should be his choice. There is no absolute way to know what is best, and as you see the very small college has its own potential pitfalls. Let him be the one who pick what he thinks is the best fit for him. Assuming that you were okay where he applied, it is a shame to make this a point of contention. Discussion, yes, war no.</p>
<p>Very wise advice shoot4moon. Never heard it quite put that way but I like it.</p>
<p>Interesting to reflect on your own parents’ influence on college. My parents helped supplement what I could afford, so I came out of school debt free. Based on success of a family friend, dad wanted me to go to the school which was in the largest city in our state (but a small college). Only school I applied to, I liked it, did well, graduated in 8 semesters with a double major with honors (school was a good fit as I was from a small town - high school was good in the sciences but not in social sciences/english; undergrad was helpful in ‘catching up’ on how to write papers, etc.). DH went to a small school across the city - we met sophomore year through school social our graduations were over the same weekend, his on Sat and mine on Sun. Celebrating 35 years of marriage next month. DH went to school because MIL begged him to try college (he wanted to go into the Navy); although DH ‘hated’ school, he did well enough because he is smart, just turned off from formal education based on something in early elementary education. DH is a great self learner; he was also from a small town, so his college was also a good fit.</p>
<p>Fast forward to our two DDs. We live in a mid-sized city with strong percentage of highly educated families, and DDs had a great education, along with their hard work. Both going to their state college of choice which fits them wonderfully. Yes we had a lot of input for what to look for; like me, they liked the idea of going away (there is a local university which is a good school) - DH and I had to go away to school to get the education. Older DD stayed over summer and took on-line and two classes; she could have done it from home, but she did better because she wanted the education there (probably felt like coming home was a step back in her independence) and she had the $2000 in her education account to pay for summer housing. DD got a small part-time job which she is still able to do during the school year, which has given her pocket money and work success. </p>
<p>DDs know we are giving input because we love them and want them to be successful, but we also want them to be happy. They know that what is left in their college accounts is theirs - so they have done well with scholarships and strong work ethic. Our faith is very important to us, and our hope is they continue to be faithful - both their schools have student services easily accessible.</p>
<p>Showing your care and concern is a bit of a balancing act, because friends and social influences are part of their decisions. Hopefully they will continue open communications with knowing that we offer what advice we have that we believe are in their best interests. It is great when they call and visit. Happy family so far…</p>
<p>Personally I would let him pick the college…I am saying that with the assumpiton that parents and kids would talk about a list of schools to apply to that you and he think would be good for him and are affordable. To me the difference between 3800 and 1200 students and $3000 in tuition is not something to fight over. </p>
<p>With my older DD she came up with a list of schools. After applying and getting acceptances and scholarships, there were a band of schools at the $20,000-$28.000 range and then some in the $40-45,000 range. So for her, she wasn’t that superexcited about the higher net tuition schools nor were there anything they would provide that was that much better than the cheaper schools. So there were about 4 schools left…even though some were a bit cheaper than others, we had her choose as she was the one going there. It turns out she did pick one that I had put on the list (because it was a good value), but she chose it because it gave generous IB credits and is in the state that she wants to end up in. </p>
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<p>Past years’ threads on these forums indicate that there are many parents and students who do not discuss the application list beforehand, resulting in conflicts in April when the parents and students disagree on which college the student should attend (and not always due to parental objections about a high priced school; there have been some threads involving parents pushing the students to attend a more expensive school which would burden the student with more debt than the school the student wants to attend).</p>
<p>He is an adult. Treat him like one. Lay out your case, and let him lay out his, with evidence supporting his position. </p>
<p>Then make the wisest decision together. If you cannot agree, his choice should trump yours, unless there is a really persuasive reason why not - like it costs thousands more that you can’t pay. Other than that, he chooses. </p>
<p>I want my son to choose the college, but I’m going to insist that he provide the rationale for his decision. And I may well (gently) play devil’s advocate when he does so. While I certainly have a couple of preferred schools of his six (so far) choices, he didn’t apply to any that I wouldn’t be happy with him attending.</p>
<p>Indeed, during the application process (during which we toured ~15 schools), I urged that he only apply to schools at which he could see himself happily and enthusiastically pursuing his education (and there were a few schools that I counseled against during the touring process).</p>
<p>After paying for school entirely on my own in my youth (an expensive private school at that, albeit on athletic scholarship), I let me daughters choose their own schools. It was a life event thing for me, coming from absolutely nothing and being able to pay for their school, a car, travel, and so on. One daughter was a Shipman at Michigan, the other, chose Princeton. I had no doubt that they would succeed in school, and never asked for or sought their grades (the outcome at graduation was exactly what I knew even without asking). The point is that there was no doubt that they could fulfill their end of the bargain, or contract, as far as achievement. I am not sure how I would have approached it if I had to worry about whether they would make the most of their education, or if I had to expend any effort other than trying to be a nice Dad. I think you parent as much as you need to, and quite frankly, I didn’t have to parent that much and was very comfortable letting my two steer their own course. I always wonder what would have had happened if I had a son. I myself rarely studied more than the bare minimum until I hit graduate school, and found school to be tedious. My daughters hit a level of maturity I couldn’t have dreamed of. Thankful for what I have. </p>
<p>Let your child choose. My parents (mainly my dad) insisted I stay home and go to the local university, like most of the kids in my town. I enjoyed college but have always felt like I missed out by not going away. S1 was accepted to my alma mater and two good OOS publics. He chose my alma mater (which is not local for us) and has never looked back. But it was his choice, not ours. All that being said, we’re trying to steer S2 toward a small religious LAC rather than my alma mater, because he needs structure and he’d have a lot more at the LAC. But if he really prefers alma mater, I won’t stand in his way. </p>
<p>I attended a very small college, at the time with just under 1000 students (now it has about 1300). I never felt limited by the curriculum because the focus was so strongly on core disciplines in the sciences, humanities, and social sciences. This is a college that sends a lot of its graduates (about 25-30%) on to PhD’s and at least the same percentage to other advanced degrees – medicine, law, etc. When I chose this college I didn’t know that I would end up getting an advanced degree, though an uncle of mine who was a professor at a major science-technology university “warned me” when I was in the 10th grade that “You should look forward to being in college for 10 years.” He was right.</p>
<p>As someone who has taught in a large state university for most of my career, I still favor college curricula that focus very heavily on core skills and aptitudes, with the possibility for specialization but not, strictly speaking, “pre-professional training” for a specifici occupation. These days it’s critically important that students have a strong foundation in core skills and above all be prepared for continuous learning after college as they move into the labor force full-time. When they take their early jobs, it’s not like they start on the lowest rung of a well-defined career ladder. The labor market and careers are much more fragmented these days. When students take their first job it’s more like they’re beginning to ascend a climbing wall, not a ladder. They will develop their actual career in segments – a few years at one job, then shifting to another, perhaps finding an opportunity that will even reduce their immediate income, perhaps getting off the climbing wall and pursuing an advanced degree for a few years. But they need to be skilled in many ways of contending in the marketplace, and be adaptable above all, while still focusing on longer-range career goals.</p>
<p>In the choice between the small-small and somewhat-small college, the main difference is likely to be in the diversity of specializations (majors, concentrations, etc.) that are available. On the social side, however, one difference is likely to be that you will never be anonymous at the small-small school. You are known, or at least recognized, by the vast majority of other students, especially after first year. That can have advantages or disadvantages. You carry an academic and personal reputation from one course to another, and (to be frank) one personal relationship to another. </p>
<p>When my son was choosing among the colleges to which he was accepted he had options between small-small colleges (an LAC, my alma mater, ~1200 students), somewhat larger but still small LACs (e.g., Williams ~2000), mid-size universities with intensive undergraduate colleges (e.g., UChicago ~4-5000 undergrads), and some some very large universities (30K plus). I think he could have done well academically at any one of these colleges. But he decided that he wanted a school with a strong intellectual climate but he didn’t want to live in a fishbowl. He wanted at least some anonymity, an ability to shift interests and gears, and to find different people to associate with. This wasn’t so much a choice of what he could study. He could make his future career from any one of the schools that he applied to. They all had strong academic core programs. He realized this, and so did we. In the end he chose the mid-size option because it satisfied his intellectual interests, had a larger and more diverse student body, and was located in a large city that would allow him to easily get off campus now and then to follow some of his interests.</p>
<p>As his parents, our “opinion” about the choice he made was largely reflected in helping to determine the set of colleges that he applied to in the first place. After that, he decided. He found what he wanted and needed. And his career since then has been more interesting and rewarding than we could have imagined.</p>