@SugarlessCandy The bigger issue for that student was poor advising and lack of parental communication about finances prior to applying. That student applied to schools in NYC but lives in LOuisiana. He wouldn’t even be able to afford transportation costs, let alone pay for tuition, room, and board. Better advising and more strategic applications would have lead to more affordable options. His stats would have qualified him for larger scholarships if he had applied with cost in mind instead of location and school name. (NYU, Fordham, Baylor are all expensive private schools.)
Is the govt going to dictate and control the costs of expensive private universities? (What would make the distinction between public and private institutions?) Is the govt going to dictate that all states must charge equal costs to students across the country vs. distinguishing between instate and out of state residents? Reality is that community colleges and maybe in-state 4 yr publics are the most that would ever be “equally accessible,” and even then, nothing is ever equal. Access to quality k12 education will always be a factor impacting college as well.
I don’t believe that there is an inalienable right to attend NYU.
It is a private university which is within commuting distance for tens of thousands of kids in NY, NJ and CT, and has pricey dorms for kids who can afford to live in them, for anyone outside of commuting range.
I don’t think the federal government needs to get into the business of making sure that a kid from Louisiana can attend NYU.
If kids parents “refuse to play along” than their kids will end up choosing from a smaller set of affordable options. I know kids whose parents don’t believe in vaccinations- thereby putting hundreds of other children at risk by their bad decision making. THAT’s an issue for policy makers, not the 'tragedy" of a kid whose affluent parents won’t pay for college.
From your threads I gather you want your daughter to attend an elite university but you make too much to qualify for need based aid and aren’t sure you can or want to pay full cost. The government only awards Pell grants, and the cap on those is about $5k/year. So your interpretation of “equal opportunities,” which seems to mean all students have the opportunity to attend an elite college, isn’t the same as the federal government’s definition.
What makes you think families who don’t qualify for need based aid have no choice about what college to attend? The majority of them have plenty of choices. Low income kids are the ones who have limited options.
No matter how much you wish it, nobody’s going to give upper income families free money to send their kid to the elite schools that don’t offer merit aid. Taxpayers can’t afford it. Residential college is a luxury, not a right. If parents won’t pay for it, their kids are in the same boat as kids whose parents can’t pay for it. It may seem unfair, but it’s not the fault of either the government or the universities. It’s a choice, and the responsibility for that lies squarely with the parents.
There are so many priorities in our country today (how 'bout those aging baby boomers and the huge strain they are going to be?). Who on earth thinks upper income families getting free money for their children to attend college is going to happen? Maybe start an awareness campaign of how “unfair” upper-income parents are being to their children if they won’t pay for college? Why should others pay?
So if you have wealth, but discriminate against your children’s further education by refusing to pay, the govt should take over? Take from my taxes and others’ to pay for your kid, so, what?, you can buy the big house and heat it in winter, cool it in summer, have fancy cars, take nice vacations? I should underwrite you and your lifestyle? I’d rather it go to kids behind the real 8-ball. Kids not living well, without basics, kids trying to get ahead.
You propose Marie Antoinette in some of screwy fashion. A then try to make it sound oh-so-simple. But it’s still: “I have it, you don’t. I want to keep what I have, so all the rest of you can pay my kid’s college bill and let me keep what I have.” ? What’s next?
There is no wording that will accrue sympathy on CC for those who have and expect to be treated as not having. It demeans those who struggle daily. What’s next? What else do the poor get that you want, too?
I originally thought OP meant her kid could take some job deal in return for a less costly education. And so could others. Clearly not what she has in mind.
“Residential college is a luxury, not a right. If parents won’t pay for it, their kids are in the same boat as kids whose parents can’t pay for it. It may seem unfair, but it’s not the fault of either the government or the universities.” ~ @austinmshauri
They are not in the same boat. They are screw*d. It doesn’t seem unfair, it is unfair. It’s not the fault of either the government or the universities for both sort of kids. However, some are offered help, others aren’t. Why is this not discrimination?
If you don’t want to pay for your kids’ educations, then don’t. Find merit money or have the kid commute or head straight to a job or the military, etc. But make no mistake: if you have the money and refuse to pay, you are the one doing the screwing to your kid. You are the one saying, what’s mine is mine.
“From your threads I gather you want your daughter to attend an elite university but you make too much to qualify for need based aid and aren’t sure you can or want to pay full cost.” ~ @austinmshauri
While we are making assumptions, I gather people refusing to acknowledge this issue are ones benefitting from these policies and don’t want to share their free gravy train. They won’t settle for free public college for all because they rather have college choice and no pay for themselves and free semester abroad as well.
I’m sorry if this sounds rude but so does your comment.
Uh, why would I sacrifice to save for college for my kid if the government would do it for free?
Vacations, big house, nice car - those would all be nice to have if I didn’t need to save for college
And you know that’s how people would respond.
Discrimination?? That is absurd. There are approx 70 meets need universities in this country. 70. Most have extremely competitive admissions, so the idea that somehow the poor are unfairly receding loads of aid to attend dream colleges is just plain false.
Most kids live at home and commute or attend their in-state public flagship or directionals, which far more often than not, do not meet need. Kids and their parents are taking out loans to pay for college.
OP, put your efforts in the right directions. Learn what that level of accomplishment is that gets a kid into one of the colleges that can afford to be generous to higher income families. Learn what great schools have excellent merit grants.
It’s so much more than good little Bobby or Susie getting good grades in their sweet school districts. Pats on the head. Many of the poor kids (and those trapped in the middle) are knocking themselves out to earn their opportunities. Without Mummy and Pop Pop fleshing it out for them, researching, getting them the transportation to their clubs and enrichment opps, the study help, offering the cushy platform to fall back on, on top of the 3 square meals/day. A number of us on CC have seen their efforts and how it impresses.
Really, enough of this trying to justify expecting everyone else to pay what you don’t “want” to. We’ve had these threads before you. All the huff and puff.
Of course there are also those extremely tippy top kids getting merit scholarships at elite schools like Vandy, Duke, etc. Perhaps you could focus on those?
@lookingforward This isn’t about my kids. They are well taken care of, even if I have to live in a shack or work until my last day.
This is a policy issue, not every upper middle class parent can or will pay for college, many kids in my circle had to go to community colleges, deny good colleges or go to whichever mediocre college who offered merit money. These kids are not getting served by parents or government. Parents earn well but have no fincial discipline and don’t value education as much, they think all colleges are equal and since they paid for their education, their kids need to do the same. Not every upper middle class parent is invested in carving a life for their kids. Not every upper middle class kid is brainy enough to be eligible for merit scholarships.
Policy? That a rich family can refuse to pay for college and look down their noses at the affordable options that do exist, because someone thinks they’re “mediocre?”
Not sure you really understand how may educational options offer great opps for the motivated kids. You may be thinking this more in US News terms, some mythical hierarchy. That’s superficial.
It’s no excuse that parents are selfish or have “no financial sense.” You’re missing the repeated messages, across several threads, from many knowledgeable posters, that many, many kids do go to their pubic or local options, for whatever reasons, and do brilliantly. Not every kid “has to” go to a $70k college.
If the family that can afford to, refuses to help, first blame is on them.
Finally, you say what really want is for rich kids to be able to attend elite colleges bc somehow they deserve it.
Fwiw, my kids fit into your community college or mediocre college with merit descriptor, and we are not upper middle class. If they aren’t “brainy” enough for scholarships, they live at home and commute. Guess what? They are still successful young adults. They know how to make the most of every opportunity they can find. They certainly don’t mope around thinking that the world owes them something they are not receiving. We do what we can. If we could do more, we would. Such is life. Just like everything else in life, we find a way within the financial budget we live in.
attending an elite private college is a privilege and a luxury, not an unalienable right. they will meet full need for deserving students whose families CANNOT pay – but for deserving students whose families WILL NOT pay, they will just pick an equally deserving kid on the waitlist whose parents have their priorities in order.
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many kids in my circle had to go to community colleges, deny good colleges or go to whichever mediocre college who offered merit money. <<
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oh, so they were able to go to college after all, and some of them were able to do so with merit scholarships. in other words they did the exact same thing as millions of kids whose parents CANNOT afford college.
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Not every upper middle class parent is invested in carving a life for their kids. Not every upper middle class kid is brainy enough to be eligible for merit scholarships. <<
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honestly it comes across like you want the government to step in and save these unfortunate little upper class kids from the horror and indignity of having to rub elbows with those inferior poor barbarians who have to attend community college or “mediocre” colleges because that’s what their families can afford.
maybe it would be a better use of your time to convince your wealthy friends not to be greedy cheapskates, and instead prioritize funding their children’s education
@SugarlessCandy, do you also think it’s “discrimination” that some people can buy luxury cars and others can’t? Everyone should be able to drive a Tesla, just like everyone should be able to go to NYU?
I’m not being contrary, I honestly am trying to follow your line of thought.
I agree that there may be a very very few kids who could get into Harvard or Stanford who cannot afford it on their own, and their parents make too much to qualify for financial aid. Very few. Oliver Barret IV from Love Story. Daddy says no, and then that very specific student can’t pay, so can’t go. And it may be that this student’s BFF is poor (at $100k of family income) and gets in and gets full financial aid. As to those two students, it seems unfair.
More common is that these two student both want to go to Georgetown, both get in, and neither can afford it. Student A with the rich daddy gets no aid. Student B with a middle class income gets some aid, just not nearly enough to go to a $70k school.
So both look to the next option, a state school with merit, or a private school with merit but farther down in ranking.
Even if the government was kicking in for rich folks whose parents won’t pay, it would be $6k. That $6k is not going to help in any of these options. $6k will help with a community college.
The bottom line is that school is too expensive nowadays for the normal family. It is just getting beyond the price for many to afford.
We need to stop telling kids they can do whatever they want in life for an occupation. That is not true. It is determined by your ability to pay for college. We are setting these kids up for heartbreak.
Luckily there is virtually no limit to the money out there as was pointed out that student debt is reaching levels of mortgage debt. As long as college is looked upon as a multi-generational cost, then the price will continue to climb. God bless the Parent Plus loan system.
An affluent family refuses to pay for college so boo-hoo kid has to commute to the local non-flagship state U? This is not a problem that ANYONE besides a few random affluent crackpots on CC cares about. I know some of these kids. They drive off every morning in the nice car that Mommy and Daddy got them for HS graduation; they ski in Colorado with the family over Xmas or go diving off some island. But parents won’t pay full freight for college.
That is their right- it’s their money and their kids. But my tax dollars won’t be going to bail out those families anytime soon I can assure you. We were full freight payers- did not complain before or after the fact because we cannot think of anything we could do with the money which brought us a better return than investing in our kids. But none of us have ever been skiing- or diving for that matter- and I’d love to see a swishy island at some point.
And MassDad- who exactly is heartbroken? A kid who can’t attend NYU and has to commute to U Mass Boston? A kid who can’t afford Villanova so goes to Providence college and lives at home? What great tragedy is here, and exactly what dream are we squelching?
My Catholic neighbors explain to me why they stretch for "nova. “It’s more like a country club than a college”.
Yup, a first world problem for sure. Kids cannot attend the country club of their dreams and have to learn to swim at the local YMCA.