The majority of kids who get need based aid are getting the $5k/year Pell grant. What colleges can you attend on $5k/year?
Since this was directed at me I’ll respond. I don’t think my interpretation of your posts is off base. I could pull up quotes, but I won’t because it doesn’t matter. What is important is that you to understand there is no free gravy train. Continuing to believe that there is will make you, and likely your daughter, dissatisfied with the choices she will have.
I advocate for free tuition in our state. But I don’t think you’re lobbying for free tuition to the local SUNY. That’s what “free” college here will be if the current proposal passes, and that will only be available to families who make $125k/year or less. The total grant would be ~$9k/year. It still won’t pay for residential college.
I don’t know who you imagine is getting a free college education complete with paid study abroad, but if students like that exist they’re few and far between. I wouldn’t care to have my kid trade places with them because to qualify for those types of benefits they would have to be extremely poor. You could qualify if you care to, but it would require quitting your job and ditching your assets. But you don’t want that. You want to qualify for aid only the poorest among us can get without actually being poor. How is that fair?
Maybe (at least part of) the problem starts with assuming anything but the prestige dream is mediocre. It’s an odd perspective. It’s pretty unaware of the range of opportunities, the many ways kids can reach goals (the goals other than just a name school to impress others.)
And then assuming anyone who disagrees is reaping huge FA.
We really aren’t getting anywhere here. I wonder if there’s something else behind this.
To say that students are limited by their ability to pay either ignores that merit opportunities exist or considers the schools where they exist to be less than. My son is not heartbroken that he will graduate debt free despite our less than impressive savings. He’s pretty proud of it. He isn’t jealous of his classmates that are choosing more expensive/prestigious schools. He doesn’t see it as limiting his potential occupations - he sees it as expanding his opportunities. Not going to an elite school is really not a tragedy.
It can be difficult to do, but this is why starting a college fund when your child is just a toddler and then regularly contributing to it, is so important for middle and upper-middle class families.
I understand lack of empathy for full pay parents but this extended apathy towards kids whose parents expect them to pay for their education is hard to swallow.
@SugarlessCandy your D is a top student with very high test scores. She may get merit to schools such as Case Western, U Rochester, Pitt, Tulane, U of South Carolina honors, Northeastern, etc… I could keep going but you get the point. What is wrong with those schools?
Your daughter has lots of options and I can’t feel sorry for you ( not trying to be rude). You previously said that you could pay for an Ivy if you wanted to ( although you mentioned it would be difficult) - then do it. People who go for free can’t say that.
I think everybody feels bad for the kid whose parents can pay but choose not to. I feel like we are getting mixed signals from you and sometimes I have a hard time following.
I have apathy towards these kids because they’ve seen a dentist regularly, have never eaten in a soup kitchen, don’t have to show up at HS early for the free breakfast because otherwise they’re attending school on an empty stomach, and have every advantage of growing up affluent. If they are smart and tenacious they’ll get merit aid and figure out how to go to college anyway. If they are dumb and tenacious they won’t get merit aid but they’ll get a job with tuition benefits and slowly amass enough credits to get a BA. And likely do so while still enjoying the perks of growing up affluent- food in mom’s fridge, gas in the car, a “free” cellphone plan, and a parent handing them $100 bucks occasionally. And if they are neither smart nor tenacious, they won’t go to college at all- just like their poor cohort across town living in a housing project.
My signal is that yes I can pay and will pay as much as I can but my dilemma is that after working hard my whole life, I’m scared of ending up on street with out health care in old age and I have another kid getting ready for college. With social security/Medicare/Medicaid in jeopardy and a volatile 401, it’s very much possible. I’m not asking for money to buy a luxury nursing home or leave it in trust fund for my kids. A good education is all that I have to offer. Most of my money was going back home to support my parents in their old age so not enough savings and no tax break for that expense.
Are you shifting our words, OP? No one’s showing “lack of empathy for full pay parents.”
Instead, annoyance (at least) at parents who refuse to help their kids with college costs, when they can afford to. (And your suggestion there’s some excuse like, “no fin(an)cial discipline and (they) don’t value education as much.” Or that their kids need to pay because they did. We’re not making excuses for these parents and suggesting the govt or the colleges need to resolve this parental issue.
Nor apathy toward the kids subjected to this by their own parents. But suggestions about how they can achieve an education, despite. It was you who brought up settling for “mediocre” alternatives. Do you know if these are really mediocre? That merit money is some shame?
Your D has plenty of options that will give her an excellent education without ruining your retirement. If you decide to pay more than you could comfortably afford, that is your choice.
1- they will always have a roof over their head. Find a college they can commute to and you will help in any way you can.
2- you will move heaven and earth to help them qualify for merit aid. If they need a month off from their regular chores at home to write scholarship essays- done. If they need to quit their job at the mall to find time to fly off to scholarship weekends- done.
3- If they are interested in a military academy, ROTC or any other federally subsidized way to get a degree- you will help them navigate.
That puts your kids MILES ahead of needy kids who have to do all of the above alone, with no grown up help, and no safety net.
And OP can explore fine merit opportunities. CC is full of tips and advice.
It’s crazy to say an able parent can abrogate this responsibility and it’s the fault of the govt and the colleges. That’s pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
May CC parents and kids seek merit aid. Proudly. Someone can point you to the main threads. Fine colleges.
The “forcing, making, have to, protest” language is throwing me off, too. No one has to do anything. These well-prepared students with parents unwilling to pay the bill at the “best” schools have to join the crowd and make the best of their available achievable options. The available options have worked OK in the past – go to community college or another affordable school, take longer to finish while working, become independent and pay your own way and qualify for aid. ROTC and military and loan-forgiveness plans were already mentioned. Also, parents have an obligation to look after their retirement to prevent become a burden on their child. If I spend all I have, get myself and children deep in student loan debt, get old and can’t work any longer, and they can’t find a “high paying” job, we will all be sunk. I’m advocating no or very little debt, and going where the money works.
@SugarlessCandy there is a difference between a parent who can afford any school but refuses to pay for anything at all and leaves the kid scrambling to figure it out, versus a parent who can afford a $65,000 a year school but wants the kid to attend one that costs less.
I do feel sorry for the first kid because he has to figure it all out on his own- but with the help of a trusted family member or guidance counselor he may be fine. I don’t feel sorry for the second.
Being in my position, I can understand tragedy of these kids whose parents don’t believe in paying for them after 18 if I imagine my kids in their shoes. Many of my D’s friends are facing these prospects. These may not be real issues for people who can get financial aid but they are for many many students in this nation. By the way in our immigrant community, not many parents are well versed in admission lingo and are of little to no help in admission process, actually a hindrance with misguided believes. Many want kids to stay home and do pre-Med as a condition for any financial help.
It’s a two way street IMO. If somebody is able yet unwilling to pay for their kids educations, they shouldn’t expect their kids to foot the bill if/when they have to end up in an assisted living home.
I just realized this is in the parent forum - I’m not a parent oops. I was mostly referencing the way my parents feel. They don’t want to contribute to college - but expect me to be there when they’re old and decrepit.