<p>My brother is a physician. My sister-in-law has both a J.D. and an M.D, and works as a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. The family consensus: (a) law school is more difficult than medical school, (b) both law students and medical students work very hard, as do most doctors and lawyers and (c) money is a poor primary reason to become either a doctor or a lawyer because both professions are too stressful to enter simply to make a buck. Medical school requires a great deal of memorization and the successful application of that acquired knowledge to practice. Law school also requires a great deal of memorization of the "black letter" law, but it's up to you to synthesize what the law is from reading case after case after case, and then learning to apply legal concepts to ever changing factual patterns. In other words, law school teaches you how to think like a lawyer -- how to identify legal issues within a complicated set of facts, how to synthesize legal concepts, how to take a position and defend it intellectually. But nobody teaches you the law -- and just learning the law won't make you a successful law student or lawyer. Finally, what professional school is more difficult than medical school or law school, harder to get into, and ultimately pays less than either as a profession? The answer: vet school.</p>
<p>Well said gbesq.</p>
<p>I'm surprised by point (a). Obviously your first year of law school is very difficult, but I can't imagine it comparing to the third year of medical school. And the second and third years are reputed to be ligher in law school, where the first and second are not reputed to be such in medical school. (Fourth year is.)</p>
<p>bluedevilmike,</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree with you. While the first year of law school is generally the most unsettling for new law students, the second year actually has more work, and the third year is often filled with both classes and an internship of some kind. In my case, during my third year I spent three full weekdays interning for a federal district court judge researching and writing opinions, had my classes the remaining two weekdays and spent every evening and weekend studying and then preparing for the bar exam. It certainly wasn't easy. That being said, I'm certainly not suggesting that medical students aren't bright and don't work very hard. Quite to the contrary. What I am saying is that in my humble opinion, and based upon the opinions of my brother the doctor and my sister-in-law the doctor/lawyer, the process by which law students learn the law is more difficult than the process by which medical students acquire their knowledge of medicine.</p>
<p>Never having practiced medicine, I don't know the answer to the OP. However, I do have a couple of observations:</p>
<p>First, my sense is that medicine is easier to practice part time compared to law. For example, my town has a lot of professionals. It seems very common for a female attorney to flat out quit practicing law once she has kids. On the other hand, it seems more common for a female physician to work a couple days a week at some clinic and earn a decent amount of money. There is a saying among attorneys that a part time attorney gets 50% of the pay, 90% of the work, and 10% of the respect of a full time attorney.</p>
<p>An attorney who lives in the suburbs just can't get a part time job for a suburban law firm and expect to earn decent money.</p>
<p>Second, attorneys in private practice are generally in a much better position to set their fees than physicians in private practice. Most physicians in private practice have most of their fees paid by third parties like insurers or medicaid. The third parties are in a position to really squeeze doctors. So the sense I get is that a lot of doctors in private practice have to work pretty darn hard to make good money.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the question of who works harder -- doctors or lawyers -- is somewhat academic. Because nobody should be choosing between those two professions based on how hard they will have to work. They should be choosing a profession based on what they enjoy doing. Both professions have opportunities for aggressive, entreprenurial people as well as for people who want a more balanced lifestyle.</p>
<p>JMHO</p>
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<p>gbesq: you certainly have more experience comparing the two and I'm not in a position to disagree so much as... be surprised.</p>
<p>Thats not true! Lawyers do get paid more because they make their own rate.</p>
<p>Lawyers work in their offices, then travel to court rooms, billing for their travel expenses there. Doctors work in their offices and travel to hospitals. They drive their own car to the hospital and pay for gas that is not reimbursed.</p>
<p>Courtrooms do not bill patients or lawyers. Hospitals always bill patients.</p>
<p>Lawyers bill by the hour. Doctors bill by the procedure.</p>
<p>Anyone can see a lawyer, but they'll have to pay for it. Anyone can see a doctor at anytime (can you say ER?) without concern of having to pay for it.</p>
<p>Senior law partners make $595 per hour and junior law partners make $395 per hour. This pays for their expertise, office expenses, including personnel, etc. Doctors are paid irrespective to experience and are paid much less than lawyers, but few really know what their hourly wage is because it differs from patient to patient and procedure to procedure, based on the patients insurance plan.</p>
<p>Lawyers do not accept partial payment from their clients. With the exception of most plastic surgeons and some dermatologists who are cash-only, most doctors must accept partial payment from their patients based on pre-negotiated agreements with insurers as payment in full.</p>
<p>Lawyers divide their hour in 0.1 increments (6 minutes) and bill for work accordingly (the smallest time I was billed for was 0.2 hr 12 minutes). We must work for over 20 minutes to move to a level 2 evaluation from a simpler, level 1 evaluation.</p>
<p>Lawyers bill for conversations, research, phone calls, meetings at the same rate as they do for being in court. Doctors do not bill for time spent discussing cases, research, phone calls, or meetings their income comes from bundling of a single Medicare payment from their time before and during surgery.</p>
<p>Lawyers continue to bill for additional services rendered after being in court. Doctors cannot bill for any evaluation of a patient after surgery for 90 days, lest they be prosecuted by Medicare for double-dipping. </p>
<p>Lawyers describe the service rendered and bill for it based solely on the time required to complete the task. Doctors can describe and describe their service until their blue in the face, but unless they add a family history, 12 elements of a review of systems, do 15 back flips and thirty push-ups, they cannot bill a level 5 consult.</p>
<p>If lawyers do not get paid, they sue you directly. (God help you.) If a doctor does not get paid, doctors either write off the loss or pay for a collection service to hound you or sue you and, if lucky, receive 60% of the amount due.</p>
<p>In summary, lawyers set their own value, guard it carefully, and increase their hourly wage based on reputation, supply, and demand. Doctors, on the other hand, have succumbed to socialist pressures that have prevented a more realistic, capitalist approach to their economics. As such, they have allowed their value to be set for them by others and have watched their market value (and any ability to negotiate their value going forward) to dwindle, irrespective of specialty.</p>
<p>No wonder theres a doctor shortage looming.</p>
<p>Ok, what about the Test? Isn't the MCAT harder than the LSAT? Or are they not even comparable.</p>
<p>Plus, none of you mentioned the rewarding experience one can obtain as a doctor. Saving someone's life, for example, I'm sure can make you feel amazing. Hospitals are unarguable in the sense that there's just one thing that is striving there, and that is help. Utopian principality. Rescuing services. </p>
<p>Look at a typical courtroom during a trial. Nobody wants to be there. The judge resents having to do his job, he hates having to overrule or interrupt during the trial. The jurors certainly don't want to be there. The defendant does not. Maybe, if its a criminal case, the DA does, but a wounded plaintiff doesn't, because his being there sucks for his lawyer as he couldn't get a good settlement case. And witnesses? They definitely don't want to be there.</p>
<p>Everybody hates courtrooms.</p>
<p>And wouldn't law be more stressful than medicine? Client this, case that, contract here, statutes there. Ugh.</p>
<p>I never saw so much misinformation in my life. My family is composed of a number of both lawyers and doctors. Thus, I will share my experiences from what I have seen.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>First, all majors can be hard. I would love to see most science or engineering majors do well in writing papers. Heck , I would like to see how many science majors that can actually write a well organized-clear, cohesive paper. All majors can be tough in their own way. Moreover, I would also like to see how many History majors do well in Chemistry and Physics or even in art courses. All majors are hard in their own way!</p></li>
<li><p>Second,since law schools don't require a specific background, there are a number of lawyers who have a wide variety of majors such as science, accounting etc. Don't be fooled into thinking that all lawyers majored in liberal arts.</p></li>
<li><p>Third, law schools like a wide diversity in majors. They aren't solely GPA and LSAT oriented or solely formula oriented.There really is a bit of holistic evaluation in law schools;otherwise, everything would be done by computer. For example, they need to fill up courses in intellectual property,which usually attract science majors or even folks with artistic or design backgrounds. Tax law usually attract accounting majors etc. Thus, some law schools might just lower the GPA a bit to get certain types of majors.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>NOTE: Please don't post a question asking whether so-in-so law school would like science majors or accounting majors more! No one knows for sure, not to mention that this probably varies each year. </p>
<ol>
<li>Fourth, if you check the average earnings of doctors and that of lawyers, you would find that doctors, on the average, make more money by far. It is around an extra $30,000-$40,000 per year when I last saw the salary comparison figures. HOWEVER, the top lawyers and those that make partners in top firms can earn huge income and far more than many doctors. However, I would bet that the median earnings for doctors is still much more than that of lawyers.</li>
</ol>
<p>Here is a url for average pay among government doctors vs. lawyers:
<a href="http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php?S=3589053%5B/url%5D">http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php?S=3589053</a></p>
<p>As you can see, doctors make a lot more.</p>
<ol>
<li>Lawyers probably work much harder than doctors. Check out most doctors who have been in practice for at least ten years. Chances are that they will be working four and even three day work weeks. In fact, how many doctors do you see working on weekends? Most lawyers, even partners, work at least five full day weeks and many work six days a week and put in more than eight hours a day.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>I met an associate who works for a top notch Texas law firm who regularly is expected to work 12 hour days, five days a week and to come in on Saturday. This isn't the case for most physicians once they are in practice.</p>
<p>This can be a bit misleading since some doctors are "on-call," which is not true for most lawyers. Once they go home, they stay home.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Malpractice: I don't have the stats on this,but I would bet that doctors get sued a lot more for malpractice than that of lawyers, if the actual malpractice premiums are any indication. Thus, there is usually a lot more liability among physicians than among lawyers.</p></li>
<li><p>Law provides more versitility regarding jobs. If you are a trained physician, you are basically trained to practice medicine and maybe do research. Lawyers can work not only as lawyers but are found in many areas of business. It is a good versitile training for many things as is accounting. </p></li>
<li><p>Doctors are more "at risk" for sickness. Doctors treat the sick. They can go into hospitals a lot where there are all kids of "bugs' floating around. I was just reading about some anti-biotic immune strain that is becoming more common in hospitals. Doctors are clearly more personally at risk for contracting illnesses because of their exposure to sick patients.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I can't compare who works harder in school since I am sure both med students and law students work very hard.</p>
<p>Hopefully, this will clear up much of the questions regarding the nature of the two occupations.</p>
<p>All fair points except one, which is absurd.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Check out most doctors who have been in practice for at least ten years. Chances are that they will be working four and even three day work weeks. In fact, how many doctors do you see working on weekends?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is patently absurd. The vast, vast majority (80%+) do not even take all weekends off, much less four- or three-day weeks.</p>
<p>bledevilmike, I guess you never met my uncle nor have you met the doctors who I have played golf with on the weekends.</p>
<p>I have certainly never met your uncle. That is true. I have, however, gone to medical school, been raised in a medical family, and done economics work analyzing the health care labor force.</p>
<p>Holy crap BDM. You’ve gone to med school and now you’re going to law school?</p>
<p>
Yes, but then why does the average MD make more than the average JD?</p>
<p>a little story:</p>
<p>my father, a physician, has a friend who is a very high powered attorney- “I do not pick up the phone for less than $500”, he makes a gazillion dollars a year as a partner in a major law firm in our city. Anyway, he developed a bone tumor in his right arm-nearly lost the arm, but an orthopedic surgeon was able to resect the tumor and save the arm. I believe his whole bill to the lawyer was around $5k-which the lawyer considered a paltry sum. He could not get over the fact that this ‘life saving’ surgery that had such a profound effect on his life was done for so little. He said it made what he did for a living seem so meaningless! Exactly.</p>
<p>I’ve never saved anyone’s arm. But in the course of an unusually varied legal career, I’ve saved poor people from being evicted, and helped a man who had been falsely accused of a crime restore his good name. I’ve settled a wrongful death case on terms that allowed a widow and her son to move from a cramped, one-bedroom apartment into a new house with no mortgage. I’ve drafted contracts that deal with hundreds of man-years of labor. Sure, not everything I do has a profound effect on peoples’ lives. But much of it does.</p>
<p>I know of an extremely wealthy (billionaire) who had severe health problems. I believe he would trade all of his money and wealth for good health. I would say health always trumps just about everything else. Doctors are held in the highest esteem because of this, in my opinion. After good health, possibly the most important thing is freedom from physical restraint such as going to prison. That’s why people are willing to pay whatever it costs to avoid prison. I would say the average person would value services from a doctor more than services from a lawyer (of course, it depends on the circumstances).</p>
<p>My father, a divorce attorney, has always told me that he basically slept his way through law school, while his med school friends never slept. I don’t know if he’s being serious, but I would saw law school is easier.</p>
<p>All I have to say is who runs this country and who founded this country- Drs or Lawyers? </p>
<p>Answer that one geniuses</p>