Why All-Women's Schools?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
241

<p>In contrast to coed colleges, where students focus on getting laid and drinking beer? ]]</p>

<p>Are you speaking from personal knowledge? :) It certainly never occurred to me in the slightest that is what the WCC was attempting to convey . </p>

<p>Fwiw--I found the link on a <em>women’s</em> college message board. Blame them.</p>

<p>I’m at a total loss as to how you could possibly read that into the statement by WCC. </p>

<p>I thought it was an interesting comment, but I didn't intend for anyone to get so analytical about the possible hidden meaning in the paragraph.</p>

<p>Are you related to Rod Serling? ;)</p>

<p>Bjm8 pretty much covered the rest. Peace :)</p>

242

<p>do do do do...do do do do (music from Twilight Zone) That was a show in the 70's for you youngins'</p>

243

<p>That was a show in the 70's for you youngins']]</p>

<p>LOL- I wish. The 1st show aired in 1959 and ran for 5 years. Of course you and I don't remember the originals--only reruns :)</p>

244

<p>I remember the originals,..and blame them for my irreparable sense of unreality,..the one where the prisoner comes to in the coffin and the one he paid to dig him up is dead in there with him,..kept me from a life of crime</p>

245

<p>by the way, the poster, who doesn't need any help from me to explain her arguments, employed a little bit of titillating rhetoric to wake us up as she defended coed colleges against a subtle accusation by those who promote women's colleges as less given to hedonistic distraction.</p>

246

<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/about_whyissmith.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/about_whyissmith.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It gives information as to why Smith is a women's college, and what advantages it has over coed schools. There is plenty of information, either directly from Smith or any other women's college, that supports the arguments for these schools. Like anything else, however, they appeal to a select group of young women. Most are not yet ready to make that leap from a coed public or private institution. Nor do I mean to demean coed colleges; as they provide an excellent education for the men and women that choose to attend them. And...that is the difference; this choice that our daughters have made. Maybe through their own volition, or with some help from us as parents, they see the value in what an all-women's college has to offer. They will leave Smith very confident women in what they have achieved in the classroom, but more importantly, they will feel that they are prepared to take on the world in a leadership position, rather than what society has planned for them in this man's world.

[/quote]

This is one of my original postings on this thread. I stand by my convictions as someone who believes that women's colleges are better suited for women, and provide them with an education that provides every bit it has to educating women only. Don't shoot me for what I believe. There is plenty of research to back my assertions.

[quote]
she defended coed colleges against a subtle accusation by those who promote women's colleges as less given to hedonistic distraction.

[/quote]

LOL...where DO you people get these ideas from? Wow! Someone makes a simple statement, and then you misread it and take it where no man (woman) has gone before! ;) And if you are as old as you state (BTW, that was a great episode of TZ!), you have seen and lived some form of sexism in your life as a woman. Why not have an opportunity to not have to deal with that crap for four years of your life, and have everything centered around the education of young women? Just a thought!</p>

247

<p>I'm still at a loss as to where anyone is making this "subtle accusation." I've never known women from any of the women’s colleges to be subtle about anything if they truly believed strongly about the issue. </p>

<p>Here’s what the Susan Lennon, Executive Director of the WCC, wrote on the website everyone seems to have missed. No where do I see the slightest hint of equating co-ed colleges with hedonistic diversions
This is turning into a red herring, of sorts, and we should probably dispense with any further discussion of the topic. But for the record, I’m a firm believer in a bit of hedonistic diversion, at times. :) </p>

<p>"Selecting the right college is one of the most important decisions you will make in your life. It will influence many of the options you will have and the decisions you will make while you are in college and after you graduate. </p>

<p>The college search process is a complex and multifaceted one in which you must think broadly about both quantitative and qualitative variables. You must dig deeply as you look at colleges so that you find the one that is right for you – the one at which you will be the most engaged and at which you will thrive and reach your academic and personal potential. The college search process requires that you understand the person you are today, the person you are in the process of becoming, the person you aspire to be, and the personal, academic, and professional goals you hope to achieve in the future. What you discover about yourself, your interests, talents and needs will help you identify and find the college that will best support and guide your journey. </p>

<p>This kind of college search is especially true for young women. </p>

<p>While women have outnumbered and outperformed men on coeducational campuses for more than two decades, gender is one of the most potent forces shaping education. There is ongoing debate about whether the quality of women's educational experiences is equivalent. Yet, among all the criteria that students and their families consider in the college search process – such criteria as academic reputation, geographic location, institutional size, cost and financial aid, and social reputation – little, if any, attention is given to the unique perspective of females in the college search process, to the relationship between college choice and student success, or to the role that college plays in helping women maximize their inherent strengths. These inherent strengths include insight and attitude, as well as a focus on relationships and comfort with diversity." </p>

<p><a href="http://www.womenscolleges.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.womenscolleges.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

248

<p>Well said RLT, well said! Here's an interesting article about why women attend single-sex schools, and what their experiences have been. Happy reading!
<a href="http://www.ed.gov/pubs/WomensColleges/chap2fin.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ed.gov/pubs/WomensColleges/chap2fin.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

249

<p>the one where the prisoner comes to in the coffin and the one he paid to dig him up is dead in there with him,..]]]</p>

<p>I was having a perfectly fine Saturday afternoon, with not a care in the world, and now you come along (welcome btw). I remember that episode vividly. Now I have the b&w picture of the ending of that show playing over and over in my mind. Thanks.:)</p>

<p>The other great episode was about the group that robbed Fort Knox and had themselves put in suspended animation for 200 years, so when they reentered the world , they’d be far past the statute of limitations for prosecution and the crime would have been forgotten.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, when they emerged back in the world 200 yrs in the future, gold had become worthless.</p>

250

<p>No way, "To Serve Man" is my absolute favorite TZ. So corny yet creepy! Sort of like the short scifi story "The Marching Morons" or whatever it's called, I can just imagine all these priviliged people off to take a leisure vacation and taking for granted nothing bad can happen to them, seems to me like a metaphor for human behavior and environmental degradation. Wow -THAT was a geeky stream-of-consciousness...</p>

251

<p>can just imagine all these priviliged people off to take a leisure vacation and taking for granted nothing bad can happen to them]]</p>

<p>Ah, is that the episode where a group of aliens visits earth and informs everyone what a great planet they come from and preceeds to convince hundreds to board their ship to visit? Only after they are on their way does one of the scientists decipher a book the aliens left behind. It was a cookbook on how to prepare humans. </p>

<p>I believe that was the first /cooking/ show on TV :)</p>

<p>Btw--ecape, what is your transfer college de jour?</p>

252

<p>let's not talk about me. i'll leave a note sometime in the future when it all works out.</p>

<p>and yeah, that was the episode. I read the short story it was based on when I was like 12 and it was one of my favorites.</p>

<p>let's return this thread to it's original purpose.</p>

253

<p>Let’s not talk about me}}</p>

<p>I didn't bring up transferring, you did in post # 238.“For me, I am likely transferring out of Smith to a coed school”</p>

<p>If you don't want it mentioned. don't talk about it :)</p>

254

<p>"Absolutely correct!! No argument! This is not a thread started as a put down of coed colleges, and your assertions that coed colleges are right for some women is correct."</p>

<p>If you believe this, why do you then turn around and return to categorical statements like:</p>

<p>"I stand by my convictions as someone who believes that women's colleges are better suited for women"?</p>

<hr>

<p>" It certainly never occurred to me in the slightest that is what the WCC was attempting to convey."</p>

<p>What, then, does the statement mean? Why would a person say that "at women's colleges, students focus on their academic and personal growth and development" unless she did not intend to include coed colleges in that characterization? If the speaker believed that these attributes apply to students at all colleges, coed and women's alike, then that's a strange way of expressing that idea.</p>

<p>I realize the statement didn't come directly from a CC poster, but the WCC site was cited as a reference in the thread, and if you don't agree with it, just say so.</p>

<p>"Why not have an opportunity to not have to deal with that crap for four years of your life, and have everything centered around the education of young women?"</p>

<p>Because for me, "dealing with that crap" (sexism) occupied about one tenth of one percent of my mental energy at my coed college and law school. I don't see why I should sacrifice coed benefits that accrue to the vast majority of my mental energy in order to avoid a 0.1% detriment. If I encountered any sexism during those years that warranted a greater response than a moment's irritation, then I was unaware of it. (I'm happy to discuss the irritation-level institutional sexism I did encounter, if you're curious.) Suffice it to say that if my male professors were discriminating against me, it sure didn't show in my grades, and if my male friends were, then it sure didn't show in the ongoing strength of those friendships. Being in a world centered around the education of young PEOPLE worked very well for me.</p>

255

<p>okay. I just brought it up to indicate I am not a gung-ho for single-sex education kind of person, but I still can see some benefits. </p>

<p>If you really want to know, I think I'm going to Bowdoin. Pomona rejected me <em>sigh</em>, but from what I understand Brunswick winters are no worse than Western Mass. Bowdoin has positives -coed, strong environmental science and policy, outdoorsy -and negatives, a little less diverse than Smith -from my point of view. Overall, I think academics are more similar than different, and I think I'd have an overall positive experience transferring. I know all these schools have more resources than any student could use in 4 years, and it really comes down to the individual and what you make out of a college, but I think I'd be less restless at a coed school. I know if I stayed at Smith I'd be thinking about going someplace else every couple of months. I also considered Scripps (primarily b/c of the preferable climate), but got mixed reports on how much the Claremont Consortium really expanded the experience beyond the single-sex campus. And yeah, you can comment on the situation if you like. I think/hope my expectations are more realistic this time.</p>

256

<p>
[quote]
Why not have an opportunity to not have to deal with that crap for four years of your life, and have everything centered around the education of young women?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, when I read this quote in Hanna's post, I thought "that crap" referred, not to sexism, but to ... boys. At my coed college, I have never (to my knowledge) experienced ANY sexism, and I've had quite a few male professors. Maybe I'm lucky? Anyway, my point is that for all but the most fastidious (straight) girls, boys can be VERY distracting. It's just a fact. This is probably more of an issue in high school, which is why I'm glad I went the all-girls route at that time in my life.</p>

257

<p>Well said PF...but that is just the beginning of the conversation. There are numerous advantages to attending an all-women's school, even if Hanna does not agree.<br>

[quote]
"Absolutely correct!! No argument! This is not a thread started as a put down of coed colleges, and your assertions that coed colleges are right for some women is correct."</p>

<p>If you believe this, why do you then turn around and return to categorical statements like:</p>

<p>"I stand by my convictions as someone who believes that women's colleges are better suited for women"?

[/quote]

What does one have to do with the other? Are you just practicing your law arguments for the sake of practicing? Geez, typical law student, always looking for a fight when there isn't one to be had!

[quote]
What, then, does the statement mean? Why would a person say that "at women's colleges, students focus on their academic and personal growth and development" unless she did not intend to include coed colleges in that characterization? If the speaker believed that these attributes apply to students at all colleges, coed and women's alike, then that's a strange way of expressing that idea.

[/quote]

More lawyer speak. Try reading the rest of the article and maybe you'll find out. Wow, are you currently taking "how to start an argument 101?"</p>

<p>Many of us on this thread, have said numerous times that research shows that people learn better when the environment is best suited to their strenghts and goals. An all-women's school provides an environment that is designed for women, planned by women (mostly), developed by women, and all of the experiences at these schools are for women. Science and math are two areas that are historically man centered. (wanna argue that one?) When a woman takes science and math at an all-women's school, they are receiving an education with the finest of profs and equipment that is provided just for them. Now, isn't that nice?</p>

258

<p>Also from the WCC:

[quote]
Indeed, single-sex educational environments have been hailed as “models of what
institutions dedicated to women can mean” (Smith, 1989, p. 50). With a long history of
providing women access to higher education, the nation’s 68 women’s colleges trumpet “taking
women’s education seriously” as a core institutional value. Advocates of women’s colleges point
to research studies that show these institutions provide a qualitatively superior learning
environment for their students (Riordan, 1994; Astin, 1993; Sharp, 1991; Tidball, Smith, Tidball,
& Wolf-Wendel, 1999; Whitt, 1994). For example, women attending women's colleges are oneand-
one-half times more likely to earn baccalaureate degrees in the life and physical sciences or
math than women at coeducational institutions (Sebrechts, 1992; Sharpe, 1995). Compared with
their counterparts at coeducational colleges and universities, women attending women’s colleges
exhibit greater gains in such cognitive areas as academic and intellectual development (Astin,
1993; Baxter Magolda, 1992); academic involvement (National Survey of Student Engagement,
2003; Smith, 1990; Smith, Wolf, & Morrison, 1995); intellectual self-confidence (Kim, 2002);
and self-perceived academic ability (Kim & Alvarez, 1995). The less paternalistic culture and
rituals characteristic of women’s colleges provide students more support to assume leadership,
reward collective achievements, and move beyond traditional gender roles (Manning, 1994;
2000). Women at women’s colleges also evidence gains in non-cognitive outcomes in such areas
as self-esteem and confidence (Astin, 1977; Holland & Eisenhart, 1990; Smith, Wolf &
Morrison, 1995) and leadership development (Astin, 1993; Astin & Leland, 1991; Whitt, 1994).
Finally, students at women’s colleges are more satisfied overall with their college experience
(Langdon, 2001; National Survey of Student Engagement, 2003; Smith, 1990) and with their
interactions with faculty (Astin, 1977, 1993; Smith, 1990). The lone exception to this litany of
positive outcomes is that students at women’s colleges tend to be less satisfied with the quality of
social life their campuses afford (Astin, 1993; Smith, 1990; Smith et al., 1995).
Tidball’s (1973, 1980, 1985, 1986) extensive body of widely-cited baccalaureate origin
research suggests a positive relationship between attendance at a women’s college and alumnae
career attainment. Women's college alumnae were more likely to be women “achievers,”
defined as those recognized in Who's Who in America. Tidball also found a positive relationship
between women achievers and the percentage of women on the faculty. Tidball, and more
current research by others (Riordan, 1994; Tidball, Smith, Tidball, & Wolf-Wendel, 1999; Wolf-
Wendel, 1998), found that women’s colleges produced more graduates who attained doctorates
in nontraditional fields than did coeducational colleges. Women graduating from women’s
colleges were more likely than women graduating from coeducational institutions to attain the
doctorate in a wider range of major fields, such as science, arts, humanities, and social sciences,
while coeducational women graduates were likely to earn a doctorate in fewer fields, and were
particulary well-represented in traditionally female fields including education. Additional
statistics reported by the The Women’s College Coalition (<a href="http://www.womenscolleges.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.womenscolleges.org&lt;/a&gt;)
indicate that among Business Week magazine's list of the 50 women who are “rising stars in
corporate America,” 30 percent earned a bachelor's degree from a women’s college and that of
the 1992 Fortune 1,000 companies, one-third of women board members are graduates of
women’s colleges.

[/quote]

<a href="http://www.womenscolleges.org/nssestudy2004.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.womenscolleges.org/nssestudy2004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Just a start, but good reading. Agree or disagree with the research; it's all irrelevant to me. Coed colleges are great for those who choose to attend them. Women are different from men, learn differently, are more social and because of the nature of coed elementary and secondary schools, are unfortunately less self assured, particularly in the areas of math, science and tech.</p>

259

<p>"Women are different from men, learn differently, are more social"</p>

<p>I thought I'd just point out that that is an iffy statement. A lot of differences people think of as being "inherent" are actually cultural, and differ from individual to individual, so it's important not to jump to conclusions.</p>

<p>"At my coed college, I have never (to my knowledge) experienced ANY sexism, and I've had quite a few male professors."</p>

<p>Sexism doesn't have to be overt, and coming from professors. Many girls have boyfriends who are manipulative, and think their needs come first -THAT is a social problem that can affect classroom performance. A lot of girls feel they need to act a certain way to attract boys, like act especially nice or not as intelligent as they are (although I'd imagine that happens less at top schools in general).</p>

<p>Personally, I do find a lack of boys distracting. And for the record, BJM, there may not be /many/ shy girls at Smith, but I certainly have met more here than I knew at my hs (again, an alternative geeky hs). So I really have no idea how Smith would compare to other top colleges in shyness factor.</p>

<p>Some girls come to Smith b/c at their high schools they felt boys dominated the classroom. Some girls come to Smith b/c they were sexually abused and don't feel safe around men. Some girls come for the focus on women. Some girls come to find a girlfriend. The point is, it's right for some, and maybe less right for others. </p>

<p>Before we idolize Smith though, there are also some problems you might not anticipate. Smith has historically provided less support for victims of sexual violence than many top coed colleges. And pressures on women to act certain ways still exist here, even if Smith has developed its own culture to a certain extent. For instance, a friend and I have noted that finding a boy seems to have more significance here than it possibly does at a coed school. When someone has a boyfriend people seem to obsess about it, and when a boy comes to campus girls flock around him. Another example I have some problems with is trans politics. It's a sticky issue, no doubt, since I feel people have a right to do what they want with their bodies, but in some instances people begin to tell other people: "well, if you feel x and y, maybe you're not really a girl..." I'm afraid the permeance of trans politics on campus can to an extent serve to reinforce gender stereotypes. I think it's good that women learn to think about these issues of gender and sexuality, which they might not encounter at a coed school where people are more likely to not question the cultural mainstream, but I'm not sure Smith as an institution handles all of these issues excellently.</p>

260

<p>Agreed ecape. Many of us have mentioned the transgendered issues at Smith. Too much emphasis on it recently, and many alumnae agree. However, this is not a thread about Smith alone, as it is about all-women's colleges in general. My original thread read "Why All-Women's Schools?" The moderator added ("The Smith Experience") because I posted it on the Smith college area. </p>

<p>As has been said numerous time before, at Smith you will find all kinds of women: shy, extroverted, introverted, type A, type B, athletic, non-athletic, goth, pearl-wearing with white gloves, cape wearing, etc, etc, etc... It's all good! Makes the place special, but not very different from any other college; single-sex or coed. As Mini has pointed out numerous times in previous posts, Yale has the highest percentage of gay males. Does that stop men from applying to Yale?

[quote]
Smith has historically provided less support for victims of sexual violence than many top coed colleges.

[/quote]

Facts please?

[quote]
"Women are different from men, learn differently, are more social"</p>

<p>I thought I'd just point out that that is an iffy statement. A lot of differences people think of as being "inherent" are actually cultural, and differ from individual to individual, so it's important not to jump to conclusions.

[/quote]

I have many jokes about this statement, but I'll leave them to your imagination. Didn't you ever play doctor when you were little? ;) In case you hadn't noticed, there are some biological and chemical differences! :)</p>

<p>BTW, in case you hadn't noticed ecape, congrats on becoming a senior member! Does that make you older than me?</p>