Why All-Women's Schools?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>Perhaps I should have said "than universities." I guess the top colleges thing might be a bit of bs. </p>

<p>But for starters, Smith only agreed to hire a counselor who was trained specifically to counsel for sexual violence after a sit-in that happened this spring (which I was a participant in). The counselor they hired is part-time. Most universities have a women's center with trained counselors. Hamilton, Beloit colleges also have that, and I'm sure some other colleges do as well, though I don't have a list. A number of girls at Smith have encountered problems with staff that did not respond appropriately to reports of sexual assault. I know of a nurse, a security guard, and hearsay that even a dean acted innapropriately. So obviously something had been lacking in the education about sexual violence component of staff training. A couple of my friends, who are activists for this issue, feel that b/c Smith is a women's college, the admin is hesitant to admit Smith has these problems, but I do not know the whole truth of that statement. I do know that up to this point, girls who were sexually assaulted would go to UMass or just not seek counseling, for the most part.</p>

<p>(And really, to me and these activists, it just seems that Smith as a women's school should be going above and beyond on these issues, like we should have a higher % of girls who feel comfortable actually reporting crimes. Not a woman should leave her freshman year without being educated on the reality of these crimes in our country, and on making good choices for herself in matters of sex and relationships, just MO. We may not be being schooled to be wives of successful men anymore, but I don't think the women's college education has exactly updated itself to progressively face current problems either.)</p>

<p>And with regards to differences between men and women, I meant with how they "learn differently" and women are "more social". Both of those are iffy statements. And while there are obviously some biological differences, sometimes people will say "men act like x because of hormones, and women act like y" whereas often times there is a heavy dose of culture mixed into those differences that for decades people have been attributing to "hormones."</p>

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<p>Interesting about sexual assault and lack of assistance. I looked myself and took about two minutes to find the following:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.smith.edu/pubsafety/documents/sexual_assault.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/pubsafety/documents/sexual_assault.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/pubsafety/documents/sexual_assault_policy.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/pubsafety/documents/sexual_assault_policy.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/pubsafety/services.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/pubsafety/services.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/health/saindex.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/health/saindex.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/ifyouare.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/ifyouare.php&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/whenafriend.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/whenafriend.php&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/prevention.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/sao/sexualassaultresources/prevention.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also, the five colleges have this program to help:
<a href="http://www.fivecolleges.edu/sapic/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fivecolleges.edu/sapic/&lt;/a> and <a href="http://www.umass.edu/ewc/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umass.edu/ewc/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and this from what to do in case of a sexual assault:

[quote]
A certified rape investigator from the Department of Public Safety will assist victim to assure preservation of evidence, offer contact with appropriate medical services <a href="including%20counseling%20services%20such%20as%20those%20available%20from%20the%20Smith%20College%20Counseling%20Service%5B/b%5D,%20Safe%20Passages%20and%20the%20Everywoman's%20Center">b</a>, present all of the options available for filing complaints and provide options for personal safety. The college encourages students to file reports of sexual assault with the Department of Public Safety. After a report is filed, and with the consent of the victim, consultation with the Hampshire District Attorney Victim/Witness Program is arranged to discuss appropriate legal action.

[/quote]
</p>

263

<p>Yeah, but you work with youth. You must be SO AWARE that putting something in writing is different than reaching out to students. And the "counseling services such as those available from the Smith College Counseling Service" refers to counselors who do NOT specialize in rape counseling. You can read about the sit-in in the Sophian. I'll post it here when I find the article. And FYI, I know a student who /did/ reported her crime to public safety, and never heard back about anything. Another was told that an investigation would be too hard.</p>

<p>Edit: Apparently the relevant Sophian issue isn't online yet. It is the first issue in May, I believe...</p>

<p>And the 5 colleges program I cited in my last post. It requires students to drive or get on a bus to UMass.</p>

264

<p>you really want to know, I think I'm going to Bowdoin]]</p>

<p>Congrats. I like Bowdoin and Maine in general a great deal. You’ll need a LL Bean charge card. ;) Have you spend a weekend staying on campus? The town and campus have a much smaller feeling than Smith. That’s not bad, just different.
You’ll be fine with the weather. If anything, it will be a bit warmer (still gray though) due to the proximity (4 miles) from the ocean.</p>

<p>Midd never made the cut?</p>

265

<p>Not a woman should leave her freshman year without being educated on the reality of these crimes in our country, and on making good choices for herself in matters of sex and relationships]]</p>

<p>Sexual assault education and making good choices need to be taught long before a woman reaches college.</p>

266

<p>"Midd never made the cut?"</p>

<p>Nope, I decided I didn't have time and money to apply to too many places. From my understanding Bowdoin is a bit stronger in natural science and social sciences, which are the areas I might concentrate in along with Environmental Studies. Proximity to good transportation is also helpful for someone who lives in another part of the country, like I do.</p>

<p>"Sexual assault education and making good choices need to be taught long before a woman reaches college."</p>

<p>I agree. Not something that happens, unfortunately. Sex ed was not terribly comprehensive to begin with, and now schools are only required to teach abstinence-only education. And like every college, there are women at Smith, if the minority, who do not stand up for themselves in relationships. There are plenty of students whose parents did not create an environment conducive to discussing these issues openly at home. So I think AS A MINIMUM, Smith should have some required educational programs. But that's just my personal dream.</p>

267

<p>"Sexual assault education and making good choices need to be taught long before a woman reaches college."</p>

<p>Convince the government of that, and maybe they'll stop revoking high schools' sex ed funding for the discussion of, y'know, the possibility that there is this thing that exists called a condom.</p>

268

<p>Birth control, another important issue, is separate from assault, you know. Both are cultural. About 40-50% of college men don't use condoms, about 1 in 11 have assaulted someone. Obviously, the standard sex ed wasn't enough, even before the Bush admin started on cutbacks. Students need to know more than just that these things exist, I think they need to understand the broader cultural issues. (I think there are still too many boys who are raised to think that girls are very different from boys, and somehow that translates into a lack of mutual respect. Sort of my personal conceptualization of the problem though, I'm sure there are lots more issues.) Countries (primarily in Europe) which culturally put less energy into making sure young people don't have sex, have actually been shown to have lower rates of crime and STDs. The United States is historically uniquely puritan. Possibly when something is not taboo and teenagers are treated as though they're capable of being responsible, it allow for more dialogue and more responsible decision-making.</p>

<p>I don't know, but my parents are from the midwest, and while they have 3 daughters and believe women are as intelligent as men and all that jazz, the views they hold on what constitutes an appropriate relationship and the ways that women and men are expected to act are sufficiently narrow-minded that I've never felt very comfortable talking to them. This whole view we have about "innocent children" who are different from adults and deserve to be protected from knowledge, whether based in religion or not, is a fairly American idea I believe. Yet it holds major sway in the midwest and the south, and is probably present on the coasts some as well. So it's a much larger issue than simply cuts made by the Bush admin. It's a deeply rooted cultural issue.</p>

<p>Oh yeah, I thought that I should add it's also tougher to teach students nationwide these things when in 8 states it's STILL NOT ILLEGAL FOR A HUSBAND TO RAPE HIS WIFE. I'm actually a little bitter about all the things I've learned about sexual violence legislation in the past year.</p>

269

<p>I believe she was told that by the Hampshire District Attorney, but I could be wrong. It was a personal story from a girl who was at the sit-in. HOWEVER, You want my firsthand knowledge of serious mishandling by Smith staff? Okay, you got it. My friends situation was specifically that she was assaulted by a boy she had been seeing. (He obviouslly showed abusive nutcase tendencies from early on, IMO, but that's another story.) After pestering, intercourse had begun consensually, then my friend withdrew consent quite clearly. He continued to assault her, w/o protection. The following morning my friend called me, and I immediately walked her to the nurse. She was taken into a room alone to answer questions, and the nurse proceeded to tell her that what had happened was not assault, that once she had given consent it could not be withdrawn. Then she gave us a prescription for Plan B which we had to walk 10 min to CVS to get. I thought what the nurse had said was wrong, so after spending about 8 hours with my friend, I went online and looked up MA laws. I proceeded to call the nurses office and complain fervently and they said they would do a "re-education" for the nurse. But it's pretty damn awful something like that could happen in the first place. If I hadn't done research, the whole thing would have ended w/ my friend being told she wasn't assaulted. (She still didn't want to report anyway, b/c she didn't want her family to find out, so I have no experience with the investigation process) </p>

<p>You did just give me an idea though, rlt. AWARE (student activist group working on these issues) should really have parents write letters the next time they want the admin to provide better support for students, shouldn't they?</p>

<p>Edit: whoa, rlt, your post just disappeared. So for anyone, this post is meant to address rlt's post that somehow wound up below this one.</p>

270

<p>[[Another was told that an investigation would be too hard.]]</p>

<p>I was going to stay out of this for numerous reasons. If not apparent to others, I’m not a woman, nor do I attend Smith or have any firsthand knowledge of the lack of an investigation or the facts surrounding the issue. I do, however, have a daughter and students I care about greatly who rely on Smith for their well-being, and a wife who did so as well in yrs past. To put it politely, your statement bothers me immensely. I simply can’t phantom Smith ever making such a statement to a young woman, either recently or during my wife’s tenure, regardless of the circumstances. The publicity alone of such a thoughtless, insensitive and cruel comment, and possibly an illegal inaction, if a felony was committed, would be devastating (read N.O.W. marching in the streets)-- not to mention the lawsuits or having to face the wrath of high maintenance fathers such as me.</p>

<p>Ecape, I like you, but relying on hearsay, or worse, when making serious accusations and impugning Smith is, I’m sure, not what you intended. :)</p>

<p>As for everything else you said in your posts, I agree. You made some great points.
My only concern is the stat that almost 10% of college men have, or will, assault or rape a young woman.</p>

<p>Sex-ed funding is a local school board and tax revenue issue, to a great degree. I’m not going to turn this into a Bush issue, but women and parents need to campaign locally to fund the education which seems to be lacking in many schools or at home. When our area needed another elementary school the federal gov had little to do with anything. We started a phone bank, called almost every local parent, and explained the need to pass a bond to fund the new school. Once the parents understood the need, they passed the bond overwhelmingly. I would hope if the need for sex ed was explained to local communities, they would swiftly allocate or raise the funds to implement the proper classes in their schools.</p>

<p>Sorry about deleting the post after you obviously read it. I felt I needed add the last couple of parargraphs. Out of fairness, I left the part you already read untouched.</p>

<p>]]I believe she was told that by the Hampshire District Attorney, but I could be wrong.]]</p>

<p>That's my point, you don't have any facts. I still find it inconceivable a DA would make such a ludicrous statement and open the door for litigation.</p>

271

<p>"I would hope if the need for sex ed was explained to local communities, they would swiftly allocate or raise the funds to implement the proper classes in their schools."</p>

<p>Umm... guess again. I'm from a very religious area. There was a virginity pledge for students to sign posted on the bulletin board of my public junior high, and it was very popular. It was supported by the school admin and school board, though not every single person, I'm sure. For people of a religious persuasion, they take the threat of sinning (sex before marriage) very seriously. It's a different culture, and if you've never had much experience with the rural south, I suggest you learn some sometime, as it could really change your view on US politics. The bible belt is largely southern baptist, and in their most fundamentalist form they believe women should submit unconditionally to their husband. Incedentally, those are also generally the states where marital rape is not a crime.</p>

<p>For your other stuff, see my above post.</p>

272

<p>"My only concern is the stat that almost 10% of college men have, or will, assault or rape a young woman."</p>

<p>You think that's concerning? Here's some other fun ones:</p>

<p>1 out of 5 husbands in a national survey report to having at some point assaulted their wife. 1 out of 4 college-aged women have been assaulted. Of course, assault is not always what people imagine it to be. Any sort of no means no. Any kind of forced sexual act is assault. Serious pestering until sex too, I believe constitutes assault in some states.</p>

<p>This isn't the best site, but it cites specific surveys for some of the stats: <a href="http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php&lt;/a> You can find similar stats from many sources</p>

<p>But yeah, to bring this back to the original point of this thread. Having conversations about these issues is much harder on a coed campus. Even among my good male friends, boys tend to be very defensive when these issues are brought up, probably because they tend to believe there is no problem anymore, since they see girls being favored some in the classroom, etc.</p>

273

<p>Any kind of forced sexual act is assault. Serious pestering until sex too}}</p>

<p>What about hiding the hairdryer and keeping it hostage until......:)</p>

<p>Relax, I'm not making light of this serious issue, but I've never seen the word pestering and sexual assault used in the same sentence.</p>

<p>[[Even among my good male friends, boys tend to be very defensive when these issues are brought up, probably because they tend to believe there is no problem anymore]]</p>

<p>I can agree with that. Many of our men are not being taught the respect for women they should either. It is sad.</p>

274

<p>'Birth control, another important issue, is separate from assault, you know. "</p>

<p>Birth control and assault are, indeed separate issues. However, basically the only institutional guidance on the topic of sexual harrassment or assault, for either girls or guys, that exists in my old school system or in the communities of many friends of mine (this is all hearsay, but hearsay in such unanimity that I find it compelling) came through high school sex ed classes, which in at least two districts I know of had their funding revoked for straying from abstinence-only guidelines. So I see a connection.</p>

<p>Also, I'd say the knowledge use of birth control falls under the "making good choices" part of the statement to which I was responding.</p>

<p>And while I agree with you about standard sex ed not having been enough, and while things like practicing condom application on bananas and the "where it's not okay to touch--anything covered by a bikini" poster were a little silly (and in the latter case at very least, misleading and slightly offensive), at least it was a start on informing us there were problems out there, whether or not it adequately educated us in how to avoid or solve them.</p>

275

<p>[[ For people of a religious persuasion, they take the threat of sinning (sex before marriage) very seriously. It's a different culture, and if you've never had much experience with the rural south, I suggest you learn some sometime, as it could really change your view on US politics]]]</p>

<p>The Muslims, Hindus, Jews, et al, religions have the same beliefs. You’re mixing religion, US politics and sex ed. I lived in Texas. I’m well aware of Bible belt beliefs. But despite the huge prevalence and influence of the religious right, creationism isn’t taught in replace of evolution, as many very religious groups would prefer. My point is, if schools are able to teach whatever they want when it pertains to the very fabric our of existence and how we came into being, they should be able to play with bananas, faux balloons and speak of the necessity of respecting women and what constitutes consent.</p>

276

<p>bjm, you seem to have mastered</p>

<p>"always looking for a fight when there isn't one to be had!"</p>

<p>Hanna remained on the subject. Your swipes and mockery reveal an intolerance for conflicting opinions. Perhaps that is the heart of the matter.</p>

277

<p><my point="" is,="" if="" schools="" are="" able="" to="" teach="" whatever="" they="" want="" when="" it="" pertains="" the="" very="" fabric="" our="" of="" existence="" and="" how="" we="" came="" into="" being,="" should="" be="" play="" with="" bananas,="" faux="" balloons="" speak="" necessity="" respecting="" women="" what="" constitutes="" consent.=""></my></p>

<p>Yes - but I'd say most (voting) parents are not comfortable with this, which is why sex ed isn't taught well in schools. Rather than a religious issue, I think it is a conservative v. liberal issue. Areas where the majority is socially liberal would be more likely than socially conservative areas to provide more comprehensive sex ed. Yes, the socially conservative areas often fall within the Bible Belt and the Midwest, but this isn't necessarily so. You can have pockets of social conservatism within states known for their liberal policies.</p>

278

<p>[[Yes - but I'd say most (voting) parents are not comfortable with this, which is why sex ed isn't taught well in schools.]]</p>

<p>That’s true. The problem isn’t the schools or government, notwithstanding Bush’s cutbacks, as everyone would have us believe, b/c schools can and do as they please, if they so choose, but the community at large and what they will or won’t agree to be taught to their chill’ins. The argument then, as you so ably pointed out, needs to refocus on community mores, not on government intervention. On the flip side, I suppose, it could be argued persuasively the government knows better than the local community what should be taught in school, and in this instance it might very well be the case.</p>

<p>This isn’t the place for a discussion about religion and the nexus between liberal vs. conservative sexual beliefs, but the two are intertwined. One visit to almost any college campus will confirm that. :)</p>

279

<p>
[quote]
bjm, you seem to have mastered
"always looking for a fight when there isn't one to be had!"
Hanna remained on the subject. Your swipes and mockery reveal an intolerance for conflicting opinions. Perhaps that is the heart of the matter.

[/quote]

WOW!!!! Great comeback! I take back everything I said! ;)</p>

<p>What IS at the heart of the matter is that some of you don't bother to read what someone else writes before spewing your opinions out about what you thought they wrote! Before responding to one word or a sentence, read the whole passage and try to comprehend what the writer is saying. I think you will then see that we agree much more than not!</p>

280

<p>it isn't what you've said, it's the way you've said it,..</p>