<p>I was just wondering, how so many students get into top schools like LSE, UCL and Imperial so easily and they dont get into a SINGLE US university. I am sure all of you have witnessed this or have gone through the same. If they are so easy to get into, how do these schools maintain the quality of education equivalent to their US counterparts (Penn, Cornell, MIT, northwestern etc)? I mean if they admit so many people so easily, it is beyond me as to how they can compare to top US schools. But they seem to be equally good.</p>
<p>Maybe they have less applicants?</p>
<p>Many people, including me, would always choose mediocre US colleges over top UK schools (I don't even know LSE, UCL or Imperial, btw).</p>
<p>It also heavily depends on where you're from. I heard that US HS graduates have a hard time getting into UK schools, however for many european people it's quite easy. Secondly, internationals (especially from Europe) are usually at a disadvantage at top US school because our secondary school system is completely different and we absolutely don't care about things like ECs, clubs, awards, etc (or because we need finaid which we wouldn't need in the UK).</p>
<p>If you're not from the EU, its easy for you because YOU are the universities' source of income. The EU students barely pay anything...</p>
<p>UK schools are easier to get into probably because they get fewer applications than their US counterparts. Anyway, irrespective of the acceptance rate, I can assure that, for undergraduate studies in engineering, I would choose Imperial over any US school except MIT, Stanford, Berkeley or Caltech. I have no doubt an Imperial engineering education compares favourably to what you would get for example at Illinois Urbana, Cornell, Michigan Ann Arbor, Georgia Tech, or Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>hmm ... yeah maybe, but back here, in Pakistan.. if u say u got into Northwestern or Carnagie Mellon they woould be like "WOW" , and if u got into LSE and Imperial.. they would be like "oh, ok" </p>
<p>The thing is that LSE/Imperial, despite having more international appeal, are still not nearly as selective for admission as their US counterparts. Maybe its just like that for international students.</p>
<p>Does anyone know acceptance rates for UK schools?</p>
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Does anyone know acceptance rates for UK schools?
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Just search for statistics on their website. Imperial's acceptance rate is about 15-25% for most programs:</p>
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I would choose Imperial over any US school except MIT, Stanford, Berkeley or Caltech.
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I would chose every Top100-200 US university over any UK university except for maybe Cambridge.</p>
<p>I don't even doubt that Imperial's program is top (it says their science program is 10th in the world), but other factors are equally important. </p>
<p>First, the whole college experience which is virtually non-existent in europe. Many american people are so much used to their system that they can't even imagine what college in Europe is like. They'll be missing a LOT. The university system in general is completely different from what US people are used to.</p>
<p>Secondly, very few people know about UK universities other than Oxbridge whereas everyone knows names like Cal, Stanford, MIT, etc. With a UK degree you will certainly have a harder time succeeding in the US (or internationally) than with a domestic one. Same applies to graduate admissions, most people just don't know how european/british university programs really compare to american ones. People with foreign degrees, no matter what school they went to, will most of the time be at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>If you want to spend your life in the UK, you should certainly go to college there, but if not, I'd think twice about that decision.</p>
<p>lol - You're saying you would choose </p>
<p>the University of Miami over Imperial College?<br>
the University of Oklahoma over the London School of Economics?<br>
Lehigh over Oxford?
Rutgers over Warwick?</p>
<p>It sounds like you are more interested in knocking British unis than making realistic comparisons. To say you'd take American top schools over British top schools is fair enough. To say you'd take American #100+ schools over top British schools because of the "college experience" simply isn't credible. Do you just really dislike Britain or something? Or perhaps Europe in general... </p>
<p>Also, how many European universities have you attended? I've attended two and both have had a lot going on including parties, student organizations and clubs, special events, guest lectures by foreign heads of state, and many of the things you'd find on US campuses. I guess the major difference between my uni and a typical American one is that marijuana and shrooms are legal and the drinking age is 16. ;) So are you really in a position to generalize an incredibly diverse continent like Europe? I've been in Europe for nearly 3 years and I still don't think I am...</p>
<p>Regarding your second point, very few people outside the UK know UK universities other than Oxbridge, LSE, and Imperial. Similarly, very few people outside the US know US universities other than Harvard, MIT, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Berkeley. Since we can at least agree that only the very top schools in either country have significant international recognition, your argument about American degrees leading to greater success internationally is weak.</p>
<p>yeah i agree with nauru that UK and US degrees command equal respect around the world. LSE is more known here in Pakistan than the University of Chicago. But i would prefer as US education too simply because it allows you to develop intellectually in all dimension .. UK universities USUALLY dont have a campus environment (they have buildings scattered all over the city - or are more like NYU). BUT certainly not miami over imperial .. but definately northwestern, carnagie mellon, University of Texas at Austin, UCLA over Imperial any day/.</p>
<p>Many schools in the UK are well-regarded in the Philippines even if the Philippines is not a commonwealth member country. Schools like LSE, LBS, UCL, Warwick, Imperial, Edinburgh, Manchester and New Castle Upon Tyne can rival the top schools in the US at any given day. 3 UK schools namely: Oxford, Cambridge and LSE, are seen here as equalls of Harvard. Yale is seen below category to Oxford et al.. Princeton and Dartmouth are not well-known schools in the Philippines. UC Berkeley, MIT, Stanford and UCLA are very well-known in the Philippines. For the ones who know... top US schools can get you a wonderful job in the Philippines but so are the graduates of UK schools. Based on anecdotal experiences... top US schools are not any advantage to top UK schools. Pesonally, I would not trade an Imperial/Warwick/LSE degree to a 2nd-tier US school, or even to schools like Emory, Washington, Notre Dame or Dartmouth.</p>
<p>i might "trade" the degree, but not the college experience.</p>
<p>I DEFINITELY dont tink that UK top universities are easier to get into than US universities. I am not really sure how US students apply to UK universities but for most commonwealth countries, you need to use A levels to apply for UK universities. And trust mi, A levels( depending on which country you are fr) is definitely NOT EASY!!! Even though UK univerisities's standards have dropped a bit, but Cambridge, Oxford, UCL and Imperial are still renown world universities. And in terms, of undergrad engineering, Imperial can beat Uni of Texas anytime.
However, the difference betw UK and US universities is that UK uni depends on "route learning" whereas US universities are more to "hands on" (research oriented).</p>
<p>
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the University of Miami over Imperial College?
the University of Oklahoma over the London School of Economics?
Rutgers over Warwick?
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Yes. They still give me the opportunity to transfer to a better university, something i don't have in GB. There are not really things like "transfers" and you also have a much harder time transfering to a US university from a foreign school.</p>
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Lehigh over Oxford?
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No, Cambridge and Oxford are excluded.</p>
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It sounds like you are more interested in knocking British unis than making realistic comparisons. To say you'd take American #100+ schools over top British schools because of the "college experience" simply isn't credible
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I'm not bashing british universities. I even said that they can deifnitely compare or beat US universities in terms of academics. It's not about college experience (which is a factor though), it's about opportunities and flexibility. American universities just give me more opportunities and more flexibility than top-british universities in terms of career and graduate education outside of Britain. You can transfer between them, they are easily comparable to each other and you get almost automatically involed in the whole college stuff like clubs, awards, ECs, etc, which is a big plus for graduate education.</p>
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Do you just really dislike Britain or something? Or perhaps Europe in general...
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No, I like Europe and I'll proably come back to Europe after graduation.</p>
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lso, how many European universities have you attended?
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One, and all of my european friends are attending european universities. And none of them is as involved in college as american students are even though many of them spend 9 hours a day in university 4 days a week. So, how many US universities have you attended?</p>
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So are you really in a position to generalize an incredibly diverse continent like Europe? I've been in Europe for nearly 3 years and I still don't think I am...
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Maybe i generalized too much, but I've been to a lot of european countries and I lived in Europe for 19 years and have a lot of friends attending universities in different european countries.</p>
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Regarding your second point, very few people outside the UK know UK universities other than Oxbridge, LSE, and Imperial.
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Read my post again. I said that few people know other UK school than Oxbridge. Many people's problem is that they compare universities as they are known among students. Hell, it's useless what (prospective) students know about universities, their academics and prestigue. It's obvious that they know a lot more about universities than prospective employers who graduated decades ago, because they are currently actively involved in the whole college thing. The average working person probably doesn't know any british school except for Oxbridge (at least the ones i asked, maybe i just aksed the wrong people?). Or do you think employers research every university they encounter in applications?</p>
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I guess the major difference between my uni and a typical American one is that marijuana and shrooms are legal and the drinking age is 16.
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europe rules!</p>
<p>When it actually comes down to looking for a job (non-us) top schools in England are by far a better choice. I did some research and asked around, Brown for example is practically non-existent. Even compared to smth like Sheffield.</p>
<p>And also it's quite true that if you want a domestic job, a domestic uni is best.
I talked with the dean at a top uni here in romania, he said that if i got a diploma here i'd have a whole easier time getting a job than with a Caltech diploma.</p>
<p>So, it all comes down to where you want to live afterwards.</p>
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I talked with the dean at a top uni here in romania, he said that if i got a diploma here i'd have a whole easier time getting a job than with a Caltech diploma.
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That's probably because these people have no idea about top US schools. If they knew about Caltech's reputation, I don't think that you'd have trouble with a Caltech degree, seriously...</p>
<p>Of course. But we are talking about prestige here, not quality. If they never heard of it than "prestige"=0, as far as they are concerned.</p>
<p>Here (and mostly around the world except the US where Geography isn't a strength), Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Ediburgh, Manchester etc. are seen as equals to Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard, Princeton, Yale; and depending on the course are most often seen as better since the whole course focuses solely on the major and are incredibly hard to stay in.</p>
<p>UK degrees = More vocational, You will study courses covering Only the subject you choose, ie, IF you're a LAW student in Cambridge or Oxford, you might not cover basic economics, or foreign language, or advance mathematics. But you will graduate competent enough to practice as a lawyer. Total time spent, 3 years and maybe another 2-3 years chambering and practice.
US degrees = More widespread, the liberal arts system is an alternative choice! You cover subjects from all the streams, (science, social science,maths,foreign language) And you are equally competent in your Majoring course when you graduate. Total time spent, 4 years and then to be able to practice ( for ex law or med) you will need to attend graduate school. So by the time a US degree holder start working, he/she might be a bit older than a UK degree holder. However, US graduates tend to be more versatile since they receive well rounded education. Similarly, a very bright UK graduate could graduate in 3-4 years with double degree, such as Law and Economics, etc etc.
The distinction is really subjective depending on the student, if he/she is better off with vocational edu, UK is much better in undergraduate. If he/she is more versatile and well rounded, and have the initiative and learning curiosity to discover other fields other than intended career, US undergraduate seems to fit his/her style.
Just my two cents worth, 12 years experience being in a British system (colonial country) and decided to pursue undergraduate in the States.</p>
<p>Ok can I rant about this for a minute? Right, here I go.</p>
<p>I started out studying in Canada (which is very similar to the US system) and then transferred to Europe because I hate paying money to be forced to take courses outside my major. I knew I wanted to be studying 2 things: economics and math. Then, in a moment of deep reflection, I asked myself why the **** I was being forced to take physics, chemistry, history, political science, and English literature! Why did the totally unrelated non-major courses on my schedule far out number the economics and mathematics courses? If students would have the OPTION to take courses outside the area of one's major that's one thing. To be forced to take totally unrelated courses, and also restricted from taking above a certain number of credits within one's major is, in my opinion, ridiculous. </p>
<p>So for people who have no idea in the world what strikes their fancy, or who go to university simply because it's "the thing to do" or "a ticket to success" or in order to "find a good husband" (lol - funny but true as I've heard some people admit) then the North American system is designed for you. If you are at university to study something you know you are interested in, and, when given the opportunity to take electives, you would choose a course that is within your field or clearly relevant to it (not something totally unrelated) then you would probably be better off in Europe.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, I am one of the most rounded people I know. Speak 3 languages, award-winning musician, black belt in judo, 2 years in the army, dance experience at international level, blah blah blah. I did it all because I felt like it, because I have varied interests. Maybe it's just my libertarian side coming through, but I see "rounding" as something that falls within the realm of personal responsibility. I do NOT need some rigid educational bureaucracy which implicitly claims to know better what is good for my development as a human being than I do, to apply to me the same one-size-fits-all "personal rounding" solution as was applied to the other 20,000 students at a given school. Nice of them to offer I guess, but no thanks. That's not what I'm paying them for. </p>
<p>Vocational? Not really. 4 years of studying economic theory and math doesn't prepare you for any specific job. Ok maybe as a research assistant. But by that logic studying English literature is vocational insofar as it prepares you to be a librarian.</p>
<p>Anyway, just my thoughts after having experienced university in both North America and Europe. I love economics, and there is nothing in the world I'd rather be studying. I wish I never had to take anything in university other than economic theory, applied economics, mathematics, statistics, and philosophy. Accounting and finance are lame but, admittedly, probably necessary for a complete understanding of modern economics. </p>
<p>These days I read the Economist magazine, statistics on the OECD website, and works by economists and mathematicians from John Kenneth Galbraith to Theodore Kaszinsky in my spare time. I discuss this stuff with my (equally nerdy) friends and family. It's called passion.</p>
<p>Just because a student has a passion for their major does not mean they are one-dimensional, or "not well-rounded" or "lacking versatility". University students are adults; I prefer to study someplace where I will be treated like one, since I am fully capable of taking personal responsibility for my own development as a complete human being.</p>
<p>So what I'm saying is this: I've got a library card and some motivation, so I'm fully capable of rounding myself without the institutional bs along with it. If I wanted to major in general arts, that's what I would have signed up for. And by the way, you do get electives at most unis in Europe. Just most students opt for elective courses in their field. Not surprising really, since it is because of people's passion for their field that they picked their major in the first place.</p>
<p>Just my two cents, take it or leave it. I realize that not everyone has the same outlook as I do, and lots of people seem to be enjoying the North American style of undergraduate education just fine. Power to them, I hope they enjoy it. I, for one, prefer undergrad on the other side of the pond.</p>
<p>All done.</p>
<p>A very nice post, naura. It's refreshing to read such a long post written in a perfect manner. I totally understand your point. I think something that would bother me in the US would be the lack of maturity of my fellow students, as far as I can assess that. They are mostly "children" and are treated as such.</p>
<p>look UK universities are not easy to get into, at least not the good ones. i think anything outside of oxbridge and lse is really really easy to get into (including imperial cause i know a lot of people with average grades at imperial). but trust me the lse is not easy to get into, a lot of people here i know were top in their country, a lot of french students i met here scored freaking 17 out of 20 on their exams and IB students here scored 45s on their IB. and trust me, LSE academics is no stroll in the park, its actually pretty freaking hard, its the most pressurized place i have ever been to.</p>