Why can't Stanford, Davidson, Duke, Vandy, ND do what Ivies do?

College Search & Selection
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<p>The Ivy League </p>

<p>Ivy</a> League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>

<p>colleges have some of the largest (in terms of number of distinct varsity teams) NCAA sports programs in the United States, and Harvard has the very largest. </p>

<p>Ivy</a> League Sports </p>

<p>Some college sports originated as sporting contests among colleges that include the colleges now in the Ivy League, for example college football. </p>

<p>History</a> of American football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>

<p>The Ivies are Division I competitive in ice hockey, men's and women's soccer, lacrosse, rowing, fencing and squash, and occasionally in other sports. </p>

<p>The Ivy League takes a different approach to college sports from most other athletic conferences, emphasizing the "scholar athlete" model with high academic standards for admission to all Ivy League colleges and no offers of scholarships on any basis other than demonstrated financial need. </p>

<p>Ivy</a> League Sports </p>

<p>The Ivy League colleges enjoy a substantial advantage over most other colleges in revealed preference of college applicants admitted to more than one college </p>

<p><a href="http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>and thus have amazing "yields" of students who actually enroll from the pools of admitted applicants at each college. </p>

<p>USNews.com:</a> America's Best Colleges 2008: National Universities: Most Popular Colleges </p>

<p>(Yale is somehow omitted entirely from the U.S. News special table on yield, but it is known from other sources </p>

<p>Yale</a> Daily News - Admit rate falls to 8.3 percent </p>

<p>that Yale's yield is generally very high.) </p>

<p>Harvard and Yale outrank Stanford in revealed preference and they and Princeton generally outrank Stanford in yield. All Ivy League colleges but Cornell outrank Notre Dame in revealed preference and all Ivy League colleges outrank Duke, Vanderbilt, and Davidson. It is apparent that students who have the opportunity to compare offers of admission from outstanding colleges choose colleges with the Ivy League approach to sports over many other colleges with many fine characteristics. Perhaps the Ivy League approach to sports emphasizing broad participation, diversity of sports, uncompromising academic standards, </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Harvard College - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Yale University - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Princeton University - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>

<p>and no pay for play is the secret ingredient of the Ivy League that gives each of the eight Ivy League colleges their unmatched cachet and enduring school spirit. Students from all over the world seem to find the Ivy collection of trade-offs to be an appealing set of trade-offs when choosing a college. </p>

<p>Best wishes to this year's admitted students who are deciding where to enroll.</p>

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<p>Oh tokenadult, I LOVE the wordplay that is the title! ;)</p>

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<p>I find it interesting that the colleges that take the Ivy League approach to sports, such as the Ivy League colleges themselves, generally are also national leaders in endowment per student, which suggests that their graduates are both grateful and successful. Preserving a strong endowment per student lead makes it possible for a college to offer phenomenal financial aid and have world class facilities for every student, and that helps the college win the best applicants and yield the best admittees year after year.</p>

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<p>I love this thread! Thanks for starting it.</p>

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<p>List</a> of U.S. colleges and universities by endowment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>

<p>Being founded by a millionaire definitely helps a college's endowment per student, and having strictly amateur sports on campus appears not to hurt it.</p>

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<p>Because they want to be competitive in the two most popular sports- football and men's basketball. If you looked at them (well, basketball), the question would be "Why can't the Ivies do what Stanford, Davidson, Duke, Vandy, ND do?" And I don't agree that endowment is linked to the sports approach. The Ivies have always had phenomenal endowments because they are very old private schools with wonderfully wealthy distinguished alums who are proud of their schools. They are great schools and do the sports thing well, as do the non-Ivies you listed.</p>

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<p>Here are links to the Ivy League cheerleading squads. </p>

<p>Home</a> Page </p>

<p>Yale</a> University Cheerleaders </p>

<p>[Home[/url</a>] </p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://www.gocolumbialions.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9600&KEY=&ATCLID=325073%5DColumbia"&gt;http://www.gocolumbialions.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9600&KEY=&ATCLID=325073]Columbia&lt;/a> University Cheerleading - GoColumbiaLions.com—Official Web Site of Columbia University Athletics](<a href="http://www.princeton.edu/%7Epucheer/%5DHome%5B/url"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/~pucheer/) </p>

<p>Spirit</a> - Official Athletic Site of Brown University </p>

<p>Dartmouth</a> College Student Assembly - Student Organization Guide 2001-2002 </p>

<p>Athletics</a> Links - Cheerleading - PennAthletics.com—The Official Website of University of Pennsylvania Athletics </p>

<p>Cornell</a> University Cheerleading</p>

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<p>I think the Ivys DO want to have the best football and basketball teams possible- WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE LEAGUE RULES! It is a level playing field, which is more than you can say about many of the scholarship schools. When an athlete decides to go play football or basketball at an Ivy, they aren't signing up for intermurals. They take it seriously and want to have a college interscholastic sports experience. However, while they are in DI, they know they are in a league that is not going to be as strong in terms of overall talent and athleticism, but it doesn't detract from the experience.
I compare it to going to private school (high school). Take Texas for example. The prep school league, SPC, includes many of the top private schools from Dallas to Houston and including some in Oklahoma. It is a VERY competitive league and the kids and fans take it very seriously and really get into it. Does it detract from the fun that it isn't public school Division 5A? No-the enjoyment is fine within the league, with the occasional superstar who goes on to college athletics.</p>

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<p>I never thought there was a relationship between college endowments and collegiate athletic life (boy, tokenadult, you are really stretching :) ), but if I believed this, I'd be firing Ivy college administrators and demanding better performance. </p>

<p>It's pretty clear that the Ivies have a lot of money…. It's also pretty clear that they aren't athletically competitive with this group of private college peers. </p>

<p>Endowment per student, College</p>

<p>2,331k Princeton
2,212k Yale
2,071k Harvard</p>

<p>908k Rice
868k Stanford</p>

<p>643k Dartmouth
544k Notre Dame
506K Duke
407k Northwestern</p>

<p>340k Brown
311k Columbia
296k U Penn
293k Vanderbilt
288k Davidson
274k Cornell</p>

<p>2007 Directors Cup Final Standings</p>

<p>1 Stanford
11 Duke
22 Notre Dame
30 Northwestern
33 Vanderbilt</p>

<p>55 Cornell
63 Princeton
64 Harvard
77 U Penn
83 Columbia
90 Brown
96 Yale
102 Rice
124 Dartmouth</p>

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<p>Yes, Hawkette, because the Ivies haven't chosen to be. </p>

<p>BTW, I thought you might enjoy this blog - it's about NU football, and it's written by someone who apparently is a rabid NU fan and periodically *****es how the university doesn't support football enough. He makes many of the same points you do, about how NU administration should "demand" winning teams and fire coaches if they don't! It's amusing to see him rant as to how getting winning teams should be SO IMPORTANT to this university, LOL. (The expression "lake the posts" refers to when NU football fans would tear the goalposts out of the stadium and throw them in the lake.)
<a href="http://www.laketheposts.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.laketheposts.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>"Does it detract from the fun that it isn't public school Division 5A?"</p>

<p>That's where many of us disagree with Hawkette. She contends that the fun is linked to a program having nationally-relevant wins. I contend that the H/Y students attending the H/Y game (that no one else pays attention to) are having just as much fun as, say, a Ohio State/Michigan game that is televised and attended by tons more people and is a bigger "spectacle" in terms of tailgating and parties and so forth. And if the H/Y students wanted to attend Ohio State or Michigan, they'd have done so.</p>

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<p>Hawkette, what's the Director's Cup and why is it something that I should care that my school does well on?</p>

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<p>It looks like the admitted students who have choices have a variety of reasons to prefer the Ivy League colleges.</p>

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<p>The Director's Cup is a competition that measures the success of a school's intercollegiate sports program across multiple sports for the entire academic year. See National</a> Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics - Directors Cup</p>