I have read many times where students will not consider a school if there is a large Greek presence. All three of my kids attended schools with a large Greek presence. Two out of three did not join or even try to. My S did join a national Frat., but it was a surprise to me. First of al it was dry. That does not mean all students did not drink. But if you choose not to drink, that was perfectly ok. They also had gay members. My S talked about how one “brother” came out to all of them after he had already pledged. My S said everyone said “Ok,” “Cool” or “Whatever.”
My two D’s had good experiences and friends not being Greek. They had both Greek and non-Greek friends.
I would not dismiss an excellent school based on there being a Greek presence.
For me, it is not that I wouldn’t consider going to a school with a heavy Greek influence, i just don’t like some of the things associated with it like partying, drinking, etc. (although this is just my stereotypical view of the Greek system, and it really depends on the school and the specific frats and sororities)
So were you expecting there would be heavy peer pressure to join?
So it seems you associated Greek societies with heavy drinking.
Surprised? Were you expecting them to be homophobic and exclusionary?
I think the OP is answering his own question. Some people try to avoid schools with heavy Greek presence because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that Greek societies pressure students to join, then foster harmful behaviors and attitudes (such as heavy drinking and homophobia). Fraternities, by definition, exclude women; sororities, by definition, exclude men. They have initiation rites that, historically, often inflicted physical pain or humiliation on new members. They typically have chapter houses for the exclusive use of members. They have mysterious symbols and rites that may seem irrational and a little suspicious. Many HS students want a campus atmosphere that is cooperative, inclusive, progressive, and intellectual. Some people (rightly or wrongly) consider Greek-letter societies the antithesis of all that.
Is that attitude toward Greek life at all justified? Consider the following:
Whatever they’ve used to be, most frats I’ve come to know have been sources of extremely unsafe levels of drinking, racism, rape and just straight up disrespect. The vast majority of people aren’t just joining for “networking”. Most sororities I’ve come to know are exclusionary places where women are told they need to put hours of effort into looking conventionally beautiful or they need to leave. Of COURSE not all frats/sororities are like this, but my experiences visiting Lehigh and Bucknell, my friends who are part of Greek life at other schools, and simply reading the news over the past few months has convinced me that Greek Life really has no place in education. In the vast majority of cases it creates irresponsibility, disrespect, and in some cases, criminal behavior. No thanks.
The concern is Greek life overwhelming the social life of a campus vs. schools with minimal or no fraternity presence which has developed alternative spaces and ways to socialize. My D liked Dartmouth when we toured last summer and we have not ruled it out but we are definitely concerned about its reputation for a heavy frat presence.
Some people aren’t into Greek life, in the same way that some people aren’t into being in the middle of nowhere, or being somewhere with a religious affiliation, or having a 70-30 ratio. People have different preferences, and that’s a good thing, because there are literally thousands of colleges out there. I wouldn’t worry about people eliminating all their good options by eliminating big Greek school. Besides, if they don’t like Greek life, a school with a huge Greek presence wouldn’t be good for them.
My D was interested in LACs due to their ability to foster close knit communities (among other things of course) and she eliminated any school with a strong Greek system because she felt it would be more difficult to escape its social presence (especially exclusivity) at the smaller schools that interested her.
Many people feel that if there is a strong Greek presence, that there is a lot of peer pressure and that the Greek presence socially overwhelms the rest of campus life. In some cases, this can be accurate.
Cool. We’re different. I chose my first choice partly because it didn’t have frats/sororities, and I’m really happy I ended up going to a Greek-free school (Williams). In my experience, it was great not to have frats/sororities.
While I strongly believe that one can carve out one’s niche almost anywhere, with so many choices, why wouldn’t one target schools that steer clear of something one doesn’t like. Some people love big school spirit, others find it annoying. Some people love Greek life, some people hate it. Some people list “preppy” as a positive, others as a negative. There’s something for everyone out there. Personally, I count the small but vigorous (and obnoxious) frat presence at my alma mater among its negative qualities. Others (I would imagine particularly those who were members of same) obviously felt differently.
That said, if one got into one school with a strong Greek presence but otherwise everything else one was looking for (academics, location, size, cost, etc. etc.) and several others that had serious missing links in any of those areas, I might argue for attending the school with the strong Greek presence and working around it somehow. But better to make that choice on the way in, when choosing where to apply in the first place.
I think it depends on how prominent and central Greek-letter organizations are in campus life. A college or university outside of a major metropolitan area, where more than, say 25%, of students are involved in Greek societies and there are few other activities available, might not be hospitable to students who are disinclined to participate. I joined a co-ed fraternity in college, but Greek houses were only a peripheral presence around the campus. Visit every campus to get a feeling of how dominant Greek life is.
Why-because some feel they lend validation to these institutions. As I have previously posted, the greek system, is merely an ancillary social organization to a university. Then why it is we find it acceptable to still support an organization that for over the last 40 years had the following: an annual death, racist functions, rapes, and scores of criminal activities??So, please enlighten me on why these benevolent entities cannot obtain regular insurance, and must self-insure–in fact, they are the sixth most volatile risk to insure in the US, ahead of the transportation of toxic waste–does that make any sense for educational institution??
I agree with woogzmama. To those who are put off by Greek life, the absence of fraternities and sororities is not necessary, so long as they do not overwhelm the social fabric of the university. I think as long as Greeks make up less than 20% of the undergraduate student population, it is perfectly fine. However, when membership exceeds 30% (Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Northwestern, Penn, UVa, Vanderbilt etc…), I think one should be cautious.
My D1 did not want to go to a school with greek presence because she associated people who might head to greek life, based on stereotypes, as the sort of “jock” types, or fashionably dressed socialites, that she hated (and vica versa) in high school. She did not want to enroll with large groups of people she thought would socially exclude her (and vica versa) if there were other options, with fewer of those types and more of the groups where she seemed to fit better.
With respect to my own alma mater I think she actually made a mistake in not applying. While there are plenty of frat types there, there are also plenty of nerdy people like her there too. (some of whom are in the frats, BTW…) While she would have had to endure some people she didn’t like during her freshman year in the dorms, afterwards she would have probably had a larger cohort of like-minded people to befriend than where she ultimately wound up, while largely ignoring the rest. And while also having a more appropriately advanced academic experience.
I agree it could possibly be more of an issue at a smaller school with a large greek presence.