Why do people think the contract colleges "hurt" Cornell?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>I’m not angry, and I didn’t say anything about transfers. I don’t see any problem being a transfer…in fact it’s a point of pride that I have. I always laugh as I think about all the insane highschoolers who attend 25+ clubs they have no interest in and spend 4-5 hours per night studying, while I had a life and had fun, yet still went to an Ivy League/top 15 school like Cornell and graduated with a 3.5+ in the end. I’m not unintelligent - I made very good grades in high school and did well on my SATs, but I didn’t want to spend my free time working my way up the Key Club.</p>

<p>No, I’m not at all angry about being a transfer. I love it. I have the same Cornell degree as anyone else who attended, did better than many of my freshman-admit counterparts, and the opinion of a huge anti-Cornell ■■■■■ such as yourself, Wavedasher, honestly doesn’t bother me.</p>

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<p>He’s really not a ■■■■■. There are a significant amount of people that feels that way, within and outside of Cornell. However, I just think that their feelings are kind of put in a wrong direction - it doesn’t have so much to do with the % of people accepted or the scores (or with the departments/programs - they are amazing), but in their methods of preferring less qualified in-state candidates over more qualified out-of-staters and taking a ridiculous number of transfers (ILR is roughly made of transfers students - basically 1/2 student is a transfer. Not even kidding. They also historically offer roughly as many spots for guaranteed transfers as acceptances for high school seniors - we have way too many transfers. This really turns off kids who worked all their lives to make it here, while other kids just simply head off to a CC and get an easy 4.0 to transfer here, with legitimatized credits and higher grades from the CC. They don’t look at SATs, they don’t even look at class rank within the CC.)</p>

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<p>This is exactly why cc transfers are frowned upon. Freshman admits who worked 10x harder get denied, yet Cornell goes and takes a bunch of cc transfers who just partied all of high school. Yes, you’re really doing your best to put the transfers in a good light aren’t you?</p>

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<p>I can see why you’re from a cc. Like I said before, calling anyone who disagrees with you idiots is really going to get you far; I’m sure that you know everything and you’re always right. Also, you should really go look up the definition of a ■■■■■. I’m probably one of the most fervent proponents of increasing selectivity and making Cornell a BETTER school; I guess to you that makes me a ■■■■■ right? Also, if you really didn’t care about others’ opinions, you wouldn’t have made this thread in the first place. </p>

<p>P.S. I don’t really care about you either. You make it sound like I won’t be able to get any sleep tonight cause you’re calling me a ■■■■■. I’m going to stop responding to you in this thread since it seems like you’re adamant and can’t seem to consider other people’s views.</p>

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<p>Thank you. Someone’s making sense. And here we have DarkIce laughing at the freshman admits who worked much harder than he and wondering why there’s a stigma toward state school transfers.</p>

<p>majoreco, well said. I’m glad that you being a cc transfer hasn’t blinded you from the problem.</p>

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<p>^agree with the freshmen admit paragraph/part.</p>

<p>Also, I would rather they limit the number of people they take in because they are taking our dorms on west/ relegating us to Schulyer… Please take care of the people currently in the school before you take more people in.</p>

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<p>Yeah this is part of the problem. The fact that you got lucky and were able to transfer is not impressive and the fact that you weren’t able or weren’t willing to put the effort in during high school is very unimpressive. </p>

<p>When it comes down to it, you WILL have to tell employers and grad schools all the colleges you attended and they know the difference between a freshman admit and a transfer…you’re not getting away with anything…</p>

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<p>OMG, enough already. Cornell undergrad is much larger than the other selective schools. It must accept more, hence less selective.</p>

<p>It’s esoteric contract schools have many fewer students to select from. Again, less selective.</p>

<p>It’ s a great school with a very diverse student body. Some brilliant an some not so much. </p>

<p>D1 graduated from one of those “dumbed down” contract schools. Her High-school stats were higher than a classmate who got into MIT and another that got into Stanford.</p>

<p>She now works in a very elitist finance job in NYC. Her coworkers, boss, graduated from Yale, MIT, Harvard, etc. All analysts get evaluated and ranked evert year in their job evaluation. There is average and half have to be ranked above and half below. She ranked the highest this year and got the greatest bonus.</p>

<p>So obviously this contract kid is doing well, at least at this point. 1 1/2 years out of Cornell and she is making a lot of money and doing well. Things could be different next week, but for now, she has done better than over 90+% of all college grads as far as compensation and prestige.</p>

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<p>That is not the point of the post - neither is your daughter’s “making lots of money”. Good for her, but that’s beside the point - that has to do more with her connections too. OP is asking for source of discontentment, we gave it to him. Like I said, it isn’t selectivity that’s an issue - it’s fairly selective alright, but it’s selective against the wrong crowd (the more “qualified”, out of state ones) - hence the biases. People just want that opportunity, a Cornell acceptance, to be given to more qualified HS seniors rather than CCers/transfers who do not have to report class rank or any other supposed “metric” by which high school seniors are judged by in the contract colleges.
As for the quality of education, there is no doubt that it’s top-notch and it would give the students lots of opportunities, but we’re talking about how to distribute this opportunity to the right crowd - the crowd that worked harder and deserved it more.</p>

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<p>On the practice of accepting a relatively small percentage of transfers:</p>

<p>The contract colleges accept a good portion of its transfers as GTs. So, this being the case, aren’t these applicants accepted up-front, as seniors in high school, on their full merits (SAT scores included)? A certain percentage of these GTs choose to attend an accredited cc in order to save money, and stay close to home for a year. You can argue that Cornell should limit the GT to one year at 4-year schools, but that doesn’t change the fact that these GTs are fully evaluated up front in high school. Additionally, Cornell says that the non-GT transfers it accepts are carefully screened, but I agree with the call to have SAT scores be required of them. </p>

<p>Finally, isn’t the percentage of transfers from cc’s relatively small? Transfers from cc’s comprise less than 2% of students according the poster behappy—and behappy seems to be quite well versed in Cornell stats (…couldn’t find the percentage online myself); and this demographic would include the GT transfers who were fully evaluated as hs seniors.</p>

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<p>[Cornell</a> Administrators Dispute New York Times Transfer Article | The Cornell Daily Sun](<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/47240]Cornell”>http://cornellsun.com/node/47240)
About 1500 GTs offered every year for the contract colleges alone - that’s roughly how many students it accepts directly (If they all take it, that pretty much adds 40-50% to the enrolling class size). If you include GTs as acceptances, then that’s about a 50% acceptance rate for some of the contract colleges v. 20% for eng and 14% cas (maybe even lower for both this year). Frankly I really don’t think that 50% of high school applicants are that qualified. I think the selectivity is fine right now for contract colleges - but 50% is too high.</p>

<p>And no, they take in quite a good number of CC kids without GT as well. For them, high school performance, SATs, and class rank in the community college are not even concerns. Now is that fair.</p>

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<p>I’m sure that a significant portion of GTs don’t matriculate. Many get into other great colleges, some get into less expensive schools, and some attending lesser schools decide they like that school (and the friends they find there). On the other hand, I agree that non-GT transfer applicants should be evaluated a bit more stringently.</p>

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<p>They don’t but that practically doubles their acceptance rate if need be. Instead of doing guaranteed transfers, just have them apply again and get evaluated alongside other transfers so that they can truly compare and contrast between the applicants and see who deserves the spot in another round? You don’t see the endowed schools doing that - this would literally fix everything.</p>

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<p>Just because someone went to a CC or state school for two years doesn’t mean they “partied all throughout high school.” To suggest that is beyond ridiculous. Not everyone is a member of the upper middle class.</p>

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<p>Colene, I think the reason the contract colleges will not do what you describe relates to tacit political agreements with NY State in regard to their continued (partial) funding of these colleges. For some interested parties this is a positive, for others not so much.</p>

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<p>@greg,
That isn’t the problem and that was not what I was going at, at all. It’s the GT thing and the lack of evaluation of SATs AND class rankings for cc applicants which is the problem. Yes, it doesn’t imply that every applicant would be like that. But there are enough people on Cornell who are like that to make this a significant problem - and that can be changed by changing these aspects of admitting transfers in the contract colleges. Rather than giving spots to these individuals, they could give them to some more qualified transfer applicants/first years who DO report college rankings OR SAT scores - as long as there’s a way to compare/contrast between applicants.</p>

<p>And yes I do realize there are a lot of transfers to contracts on this thread. Stop misinterpreting what I’m saying. I have nothing against CC students or state college students - I’m saying the college should have a “metric” for comparing CC students to other transfer applicants and high school students, and that they should scrap the GT system. I don’t think that the contract colleges hurt cornell at all and nor did I say that - what I said is that they can improve in these aspect of admissions.</p>

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<p>@Colene,</p>

<p>My comment was actually intended for Wavedasher, who implied that people who didn’t get into Cornell as freshmen and were applying as a transfer from CC’s spent their high school years “partying”</p>

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<p>Ok, this is my last post on this thread and then I’m finished. I wanted to make a point about Cornell’s structure and why I love my school, but of course I was attacked. How surprising…</p>

<p>So a few points:</p>

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<li>I have every right to defend myself and make fun of the people who graduated from the same college I did and worked 10x as hard to get there, if those SAME people want to make fun of me and essentially say I’m “lesser” for having transferred into Cornell. Two sides of the same coin. As for this tidbit from pch340</li>
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<p>"When it comes down to it, you WILL have to tell employers and grad schools all the colleges you attended and they know the difference between a freshman admit and a transfer…you’re not getting away with anything… "</p>

<p>Completely false for two reasons. First, I could always leave my first college off of my resume. People don’t list every school they ever took classes from on a resume, they list schools where they actually received a degree - the majority of my employers would never even know I transferred in. Second, if I were to list it, you must be quite deluded if you think future employers are going to sit down and think “Gee, this guy did very well at Cornell but…he transferred in. Clearly he is inferior.” If I do the work at Cornell, I’ve proven I can compete at the Cornell level, regardless of where I spent my first year. And transferred GPAs are not factored into our Cornell GPA, so it’s not like my first year elsewhere helped “boost” my Cornell GPA. Furthermore, I was also admitted as a transfer to Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Lehigh, UChicago and Emory, so it’s not as if only Cornell accepts students from community colleges.</p>

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<li>Why do people who want to increase Cornell’s selectivity hate on transfers? If anything, transfers are helping selectivity. Transfer admissions are not included in the overall admit rate - usually only the freshman admit rate is what people are looking at and basing selectivity on. Take CALS for example…they take a large number of transfers to fill their classes. If they accepted the number of students necessary to fill their class as freshman, the acceptance rate would skyrocket. Transfers are filling Cornell’s classes without affecting average scores, GPAs, or freshman admit rates. </li>
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<p>I apologize for posting this thread. I was trying to explain why I think Cornell is such a great school. I had no idea it would be hijacked and turned into a “Why Cornell sucks” thread like every other one on here. You people need to stop hating on your own school.</p>

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<p>“I have every right to defend myself and make fun of the people who graduated from the same college I did and worked 10x as hard to get there, if those SAME people want to make fun of me and essentially say I’m “lesser” for having transferred into Cornell.”</p>

<p>No you don’t. That’s just called being a jerk. And seriously, nobody says you are lesser for having transferred - at least I am not. Anyways, two wrongs don’t make a right.</p>

<p>If your cc gpa isn’t factored into your gpa when you graduate and you competed at the Cornell level, then I’m completely fine with that.</p>

<p>Also, there is nothing wrong with transfers. However, there is something wrong with Guaranteed Transfers. You can keep your selectivity with transfers, but why guaranteed transfers.</p>

<p>“Transfers are filling Cornell’s classes without affecting average scores, GPAs, or freshman admit rates”</p>

<p>I don’t see what you are trying to get at here. Why would affecting the average scores and such that be a bad thing if they were on par with high school seniors? Another thing - it does affect freshmen admit rates. Transfers are students, and to house and support transfer students means less first year admits. This would be fine if contract transfer students are evaluated with some sort of “metric” - class rank or SAT or anything whatsoever.</p>

<p>“I had no idea it would be hijacked and turned into a “Why Cornell sucks” thread like every other one on here.”</p>

<p>By the way, we aren’t doing that. You only made this thread, concerning a taboo subject on the forums, to assuage your insecurities. You wanted an argument, and you got it - it’s as simple as that. If you really thought that in the first place, you would not have made this thread at all - you are probably smart enough (at least i hope) to know how this thread would have turned out and you would be lying otherwise. It is ANYTHING BUT SURPRISING that when you use such language that people would tend to fight back - except now you are resorting to ad hominem attacks so you should stop here and now if you have any dignity as a Cornell grad for arguing something as petty as this just because of your insecurities as a transfer student. Honestly, nobody cared until you brought it up. Like i said, there was no stigma towards the contract colleges (they are educationally amazing) - a point i keep bring up again and again but people (including you) keep twisting this to a discussion about transfers - which was pretty much the main reason you made the thread in the first place because it pertains to your selfish interests more. Honestly, it was less about the contract colleges in the first place than it was about YOUR standing in cornell which nobody. cares. about. </p>

<p>As i said, “Stop misinterpreting what I’m saying. I have nothing against CC students or state college students - I’m saying the college should have a “metric” for comparing CC students to other transfer applicants and high school students, and that they should scrap the GT system. I don’t think that the contract colleges hurt cornell at all and nor did I say that - what I said is that they can improve in these aspect of admissions.”</p>

<p>Doing this would also appease those who complain that the transfer process is “unfair” (on and off campus) and make it so that they are less biased against on campus or in anything for that matter because this GT program is pretty darn notorious and doesn’t really help the reputation of transfer students (almost seems like they are evaluated on a completely different standard). It doesn’t matter really how the process works, but just the idea itself hurts transfer students and can hurt their reputation in others’ eyes. Summary: getting rid of the GT program helps transfer students and Cornell students in overcoming the possible bias directed at transfer students (NOT THE CONTRACT COLLEGES).</p>

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<p>@ Colene</p>

<p>The nature of community colleges (and universities in general) make ranking more or less impossible. That’s why I suggested (with 4 year students at least), taking more account for highly selective scholarships and awards. For example, only 1 or 2 students per school can be nominated for the All-USA Academic Team. By getting the nomination, you’re more or less one of the best students at your school. An internal selection, if you will.</p>

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<p>Lol what on earth, colene? Maybe you should read my OP before you go on a tirade about how I made this thread because I was a transfer. You’ll see I didn’t bring up transfers or transfer admissions at all…I don’t even think about the fact that I transferred in. Someone else brought up transfers randomly a few posts later, not me. Seriously calm down. You’re getting worked over something because you thing you have me figured out and you’re dead wrong.</p>

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<p>It means they blew off high school cause they didn’t care. What do high school students who don’t focus on getting into top colleges do with their free time? The answer’s pretty obvious. Of course, you’re going to argue about the child who lost both parents, had to work full time since age 10 to even support their sibilings, etc. and so didn’t have time to study so went to cc, but seriously, how many cases like that do you think there are? Probably <10 in the entire transfer body at Cornell. The fact that students like DarkIce are proud about exploiting Cornell’s backdoor/loophole and then laughing about how they didn’t work as hard just proves my point. I would bet a limb that a good portion of ILR transfers apply not because they’re interested in labor/law, but because it’s the easiest to get into; that’s why so many transfer out once they get here.</p>

<p>Also, what does being upper middle class have to do with anything? Nearly half (maybe even more now) of the freshman class come from low income backgrounds and get some form of financial aid; they all made it to Cornell the hard way. Honestly, going to CC means you just didn’t care during high school, and for all the people who did care and got rejected with high stats, it’s a slap in the face if those slackers are given second chances so easily and sneak their way in and then laugh about it. And please save the whole argument about how people go to CC to save money. If they were qualified for the freshman class, they would’ve gotten in and gotten financial aid; financial aid nullified that argument (or excuse) years ago. Not being able to afford top schools is one of the biggest excuses people make to justify their community college decisions. It wasn’t about the money, they either got rejected or couldn’t even fathom applying cause their stats were too low. Then they realize that anyone with a 4.0 from any cc has a good shot at Cornell’s state schools. Please tell me any other Ivy or top school where you can say that so confidently. Please tell me that any random high schooler with a 4.0 (and even a 2300+ SAT) has a solid shot at Cornell or any other top school during the freshman round. That’s right.</p>

<p>There are always exceptions/outliers. You may be one of the few who deserve a solid shot at Cornell, but just looking at the stats in the transfer/chances threads, it’s just horribly embarrassing that 2.5 HS GPA, 1700 SAT score community college students are applying and getting accepted. I notice a few like that “something12345” poster who’s applying from UChicago and the other guy with a 4.0 from Vanderbilt. THOSE are the guys who should be getting in and/or have decent shots; the majority of the people have no business applying to Cornell with the stats I see on that thread. </p>

<p>Some of the transfers trying to defend themselves in this thread is the exact same thing that benefiters of affirmative action do when they downplay their race and tell people they got accepted cause they were unique and/or smart. Most of the time, that wasn’t the case.</p>