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<p>That time I mulliganed at the state championship but learned how to handle failure…</p>
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<p>The 10th hole at that resort my family took me to in Aruba after we built a school…</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>Yeah. But you’re savvy to this sort of thing. :)</p>
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<p>I disagree. That is not the definition of a lottery.
A lottery implies that there is no consideration for who might win. A millionaire is as likely to win a lottery as a poor person (assuming they each buy one ticket). A lottery is 100% luck. Period.</p>
<p>Of course, in college admissions there is a bit of luck involved, it is not a deterministic process.</p>
<p>Your application may be read right after someone read the best application ever and still had tears in their eyes and their hand was sore after stamping “auto accept” 100 times on that other application, or it may be read after the reader read 10 terrible applications is a row. That will certainly have an impact on how your application is received…but only at the margin (you were borderline to begin with).</p>
<p>(BTW, some colleges, like Stanford, you only get one reader)</p>
<p>Stanford only guarantees one reader. That’s “first cut.” Their decisions rest on far more than one rep or one read- maybe except first cut. </p>
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<p>This is why I believe it’s a mistake to view the high school years as four years of resume-building for elite university admissions. Freshmen or sophomores might look at lists like Northstarmom’s and think, “gee, I better get started on beefing up my profile” and throw themselves into doing research, participating in contests, running fundraisers, doing volunteer work, etc. (Not saying that any of these activities are bad, just that the motivation isn’t healthy.) But they are competing with thousands of other smart, motivated students, and many of them are rejected. And there go four years of exhausting effort seemingly for nothing-- witness the many threads each April that have some version of “Got rejected to most of my top choices, now I’m stuck going to my state university, it’s not fair that I worked so hard for nothing.”</p>
<p>Instead of molding themselves to the colleges, students should find the colleges that will allow them to thrive, as you described. College acceptances aren’t prizes. There’s a lot of soul-searching in the process. As a side note, one benefit of pursuing genuine interests and intentionally building character is that those last far longer than the application process. </p>
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<p>But that is about 1000 times more that people know about colleges than just 15 years ago so they have had the opportunity to do a lot more soul searching than ever before. </p>
<p>As long as what they get is accurate. A lot of times, what we all see in CC is just not what the colleges themselves say. Look at how often “passion” and curing cancer come up, how many times that kid at 2200 is told to retake. A former Stanford rep talks about “competitive” for admissions and “compelling” for an admit. </p>
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I haven’t read through all the comments in the thread, so I may repeat some earlier comments. Your friend doesn’t sound like a top applicant to me. Many applicants have excellent grades and test scores, many more than selective colleges could possibly admit. When there are more applicants than spots, selective colleges generally do not try to find the pinnacle of test scores among all the top scoring students, such as admitting all the 99.9th percentile and scores rejecting all the 99.0th percentiles. Instead they look at the rest of the application. For example, does the applicant do anything besides studying that would look impressive on more than just a HS/regional level? This would not include “tons of ECs” or a HS math league position. It possibly could include the local youth group, if his accomplishments were very impressive and he appeared to be truly passionate about the cause. Selective colleges are not just choosing the students who are likely to graduate with the highest GPA. They are choosing the students who are likely to make an impression on the college and world beyond.</p>
<p>Colleges also consider things like distribution of majors and likelyhood of admission. For example, Cornell’s Engineering college is probably more selective than some of the ivies, even though it is thought of as the least selective ivy. Cornell’s Hotel School has some of the lowest stats of all the Cornell schools. One of the reasons for that is they are likely to reject a top stat student who doesn’t have experience in the hospitality industry and/or doesn’t seem serious about going into the hotel industry during the interview (interview is required for hotel school). It’s not that they aren’t selective. It’s that they are emphasizing more than stats.</p>
<p>Harvard has the lowest overall admission rate for ivies, but it has the highest admission rate of all SCEA colleges. It’s SCEA admit rate was 21% this year. Based on the number of remaining spots, the RD rate is expected to be 3% or less this year. Harvard will likely have the lowest RD admit rate of the SCEA schools, even though it had the highest SCEA admit rate. Harvard’s selectivity appears to differ significantly depending on whether you indicate a first choice by applying SCEA. </p>
<p>Brown goes so far as to list many criteria as more important than both grades and test scores in the CDS. Things like course rigor, talent/ability, character/personal qualities, and level of interest are all marked as more important. This fits with the Brown admissions stats at <a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University; where they they reject the vast majority of valedictorians, as well as students scoring a perfect ACT composite or 800 subsection.</p>
<p>@Ghostt, again I find it funny how you think he was a boring person because he did well in school. I don’t know too much about all his extracurriculars except by his essays he had me read, which, in my opinion were very good. He and I had our essays reviewed by faculty members as well. </p>
<p>Haha no, its not me, I didn’t apply to any Ivy Leagues - I’m not a minority and I didn’t have the cash…</p>
<p>@essayteacher, Look, I don’t want to make a friend sound entitled - he really wasn’t. I don’t think its fair to call it “entitlement” when you get nearly a perfect score and is at the top of the class. In fact his teachers and counselors were the ones who most strongly encouraged him to apply. </p>
<p>Also, I find it hard to believe that FOUR schools all decided they didn’t want any of my friend’s “talents”. And again, he is fine with where he goes now, but when I look back on it, I don’t want the same thing happening to my siblings or kids in the future… How can I tell them to work hard in high school, when there is nothing to work towards besides four years in a city or state institution (not that these are in anyway bad).</p>
<p>@warriordaughter, that is a point that I agree with, but is not relevant in this situation, as this was someone who did things since freshman year because that is simply what he loved to do. Keep in mind that he is not wondering about why he didn’t get in, but this thread is my curiosity of how these things happen. I do not believe that it is possible for a college to “fully understand” a student in four or five pieces of paper, or in an hour long interview. The process is simply too subjective and therefore susceptible to deserving students being rejected. (I am not saying this in regards to my friend, just that it does happen.) Again, he did not try to “build his resume,” and told me he left out a few activities on his applications, because he felt that he did not commit enough time to them. So no, I do not believe that your answer is a good explanation of this scenario.</p>
<p>@TrinidadJames22, want to give some specifics? I think that is the entire purpose of this thread.</p>
<p>He was unlucky…but do you really want to live in a world where schools just admit based on the numbers and the awards?</p>
<p>There’s no soul in that world.</p>
<p>@jsmike123qwe</p>
<p>I think it’s well covered in the thread honestly, it’s as simple as they just didn’t want him, whether that’s fair or not. Might be cliche but the world isn’t fair. There are just people in far worse spots than getting rejected by a couple schools and having to attend what I assume given his stats, was another pretty great school.</p>
<p>I feel sympathy for him (maybe empathy in a couple days) but that’s just life.</p>
<p>Many people said my S had no chance for those Ivies! He chose to apply to 12 schools including 5 Ivies, 4 privates and 3 publics. So far we have our State flagship, Rice @ Houston. UNC@Chappell Hill, Penn@ Philadelphia, and Cornell @Ithaca. Waiting for some more later this month. And yes, besides his strong academics, swimming (that was pretty much all his EC’s) and volunteering work. Hispanic</p>
<p>deleted by Sue22</p>
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<p>Is that the attitude that came across in your friend’s application, that education for its own sake isn’t important? If the value of your high school years lies solely in what colleges accept you at the end of it, you’re missing the point. If your friend is happy and thriving, why does his rejection bother you? </p>
<p>From the little one can read for free, I think she is worth looking at: <a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Admissions-Former-Stanford-Officers-College-ebook/dp/B0052MZEZC”>http://www.amazon.com/Admissions-Former-Stanford-Officers-College-ebook/dp/B0052MZEZC</a></p>
<p>It’s not all about stats.<br>
If you want it to be all about stats, you may want to look at schools that select on that basis. </p>
<p>For the record, we don’t know how your friend came across. Only that his stats did not guarantee him a coveted spot at an Ivy. Maybe he didn’t appear as great as you know him to be, maybe it was dumb luck that another, similar kid at another local hs seemed more “compelling.” </p>
<p>If you want to know more about admissions, look at the various top colleges’ web sites, see what you can glean. </p>
<p>@jsmike, while I get your point, it’s going to eat you or your friend up unless you turn it around. He’s clearly a great student with a lot to offer. If he was shut out of Cornell, it means that other kids like him were also shut out. What that means to me is that no one college or group of colleges has a monopoly, or even wants a monopoly, on smart kids. He will have other amazing kids who will go to school with him at whatever school he ends up choosing and if he takes his work ethic, interests, and intelligence with him to college, he will thrive.</p>
<p>I admit, the growing unpredictability of this process at a greater number of schools each year can make you crazy and that craziness feeds the cycle. </p>
<p>Brown provides admissions statistics that offer some insight. Among applicants for Brown’s Class of 2017, Brown rejected 82% of valedictorians and 85% of salutatarians. It also rejected 82% of applicants who had a perfect 800 on SAT-CR; 84% of applicants with a perfect 800 on SAT-M; and 82% of applicants with a perfect 800 on SAT-W, as well as 76% of applicants with a perfect 36 on the ACT.</p>
<p>These schools just aren’t that impressed by strong stats. Or more precisely, strong stats are only a starting point, without which your odds of admission just get much longer. In 2013, Brown rejected 98% of applicants who weren’t in the top 10% of their class (among students from schools that rank), and it rejected 90% of applicants whose SAT-CR scores were in the 700-740 range, 92% of those whose SAT-CR scores were in the 650-690 range, and on down the line. </p>
<p>Frankly, the OP’s friend’s extracurriculars just don’t sound that impressive. “Participating in tons of activities” and exercising leadership by serving as “VP of a local youth group and secretary of the math league” are pretty run-of-the-mill accomplishments for the applicant pool the most selective colleges and universities get. Not that they’re disqualifying in any way, but they’re just not going to ring the chimes of any admissions reader; no one’s going to look at those ECs after poring over hundreds of applications from students with essentially similar stats and say, “Wow! This kid was VP of a local youth group AND secretary of the math league! We just absolutely need him at Yale (or Columbia, or wherever).” Fact is, they have thousands of applicants just like him, and some with more unique and/or more impressive accomplishments. No doubt they do take some with pretty similar stats and ECs; but it’s far from automatic, and no one should be surprised when this kid gets rejected, because thousands of others just like him will also be rejected </p>
<p>Finally, to be clear: a 2360 SAT just isn’t that much more impressive to the most selective schools than a 2250 or even a 2150, and being salutatorian isn’t that much more impressive than being in the top 10% of the class. Take a close look at the Brown stats. They accepted 15% of salutatorians and 11% of applicants in the top 10% of their HS class (excluding vals and sals), so there’s a discernible edge for being Sal, but they still rejected 85% of Sals. They accepted 16% of applicants scoring 800 on SAT-M and 13% of those scoring 750-790, so again a discernible edge for the perfect score, but they still rejected 84% of those with a perfect score. From this we can infer that a salutatorian with near-perfect SAT scores isn’t a lock or even a likely admit at the most selective colleges and universities. As people say on CC over and over again, these schools are a reach for everyone. No one should be surprised that they aren’t admitted. </p>