<p>I believe the chancing phenomena is a result of a social instinct; one wishes to justify his insecurity regarding his application by noting the wide range of replies given in response to the ‘chance’ thread. I believe the discerning individual would be far more comforted by a unanimous response of “maybe” over a unanimous answer of “in.” </p>
<p>This universal uncertainty results in a feeling of communion with fellow, uncertain applicants. I also believe the forum environment here fosters a nice community where applicants all experience the same stress, anxiety, and nervousness in college applications, a community that is effectively structured around the ritual of “chancing.”</p>
<p>Ultimately, chancing has become part of the identity of CC, resulting in its use not only to gauge chances but also interact with others.</p>
<p>That’s true, to a certain extent. I can tell you that for us, we don’t put any weight on legacy (which is one thing markedly different about our process). While we are an affirmative action school, two things are also true: a) we our “affirmative action” comprises a wide variety of socioeconomic factors, not just race and ethnicity, which is part of the reason why we have 15% first generation to college students, and b) all applicants, including students on whom we act affirmatively, must pass the same inspection for academic preparedness as all other applicants, because there is no easy way for anyone through MIT. </p>
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<p>Well, I would count that “gut” bell as part of the subjective consideration - I don’t know how to separate those two. </p>
<p>We have very broad latitude, but, as I said, all candidates must convince the adcom that they are academically prepared for MIT. By which I mean “they could do the work here.” We have very good models to predict this sort of thing, which is part of the reason we have a 98% freshman retention rate and 92% 4yr graduation rate - because all students have passed this muster. </p>
<p>But certainly, there are academically prepared students who are not “shiny” who are admitted to MIT because the experience of the adcoms suggests that they would contribute something significant to the campus. I was talking to one our bloggers about this the other day. She was a self-professed “boring” applicant. And she’s one of the funniest, most lively members of the MIT campus. That sort of stuff often comes out in applications in the subjective parts - the letters, the interview, little things that bubble up in the essays. And those are the things that “chance” threads can’t count at all. </p>
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<p>Right, which is frustrating for y’all (I understand this, believe me), but another reason why chance threads aren’t really helpful. </p>
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<p>But see this is kind of my point. No one on CC knows what a “seeming auto admit” is. It’s not possible. It just isn’t. People may think they know what a seeming auto admit is to MIT, but even I never know from a CC thread. </p>
<p>Part of that is just the super-competitive nature of highly selective colleges, where no one is a sure thing until everything finishes shaking out. </p>
<p>But a lot of that is because the things people can post on CC may SEEM like the relevant data on which to judge “auto-admittedness”, but they NEVER are. At best, they are incomplete; at worst, and much more often, they are misleading. </p>
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<p>And I recognize the social value of this. I really do. I spend a lot of time on forums and I realize the value of just plain BSing with your buddies. </p>
<p>What concerns me - and why I’ve worked so hard to stop chance threads in the MIT forum, with moderate success - is a) people who take the chance threads seriously because they naively trust that people on CC know what they are talking about, and b) people who get mocked if their numbers/etc aren’t “good enough”, and end up maybe not applying when they should have, or at least feeling bad about themselves for no good reason. </p>
<p>And I appreciate, Dave, your continued questions. I haven’t ventured outside the MIT forum much, but I want to try to communicate to people the things that I think are important from my perspective inside the process.</p>
<p>As someone who studied more than a little anthro and behavioral sociology, I think you’re spot on, descriptively. But I’m not sure that these norms are the best. Maybe forums regulars understand chancing to be the lubricative game that it is for them, but for people just dropping in, it’s really intense. </p>
<p>I think there are good things about CC, and I think there are bad things about CC. Chance threads, to me, fall into the latter category. I think CC would be a better place if there weren’t any chance threads.</p>
<p>Self-assurance, I suppose. Curiosity. Boredom?</p>
<p>I think the main reason why people post “chance” threads is that so much importance is placed upon which schools a person is able to get into. Everyone knows (well, I hope so) that the answers are probably not very reliable, and no one on here can give them a definite answer. Waiting can be unbearable though, so posters’ responses can give them some idea of the future. CC has many members going through the same struggles, so it only seems natural to me that so much insecurity would be gathered in a single place.</p>
<p>Personally, a lot of it has to do with my lack of confidence in what I’ve done so far with my life. I somehow convinced myself that nothing was ever good enough. Even though I got into the schools I applied to last year, what about the others I have in mind? What if they’re known to be unpredictable? I was not thinking rationally, and I’m not even currently waiting for any responses from universities. Why does insomnia toy with my thoughts and feelings, so I end up wasting a half-hour of my life typing my first and only “chance” thread when I should be trying to sleep?</p>
<p>Facawi, your post is a bit disturbing because you claimed to understand what Chris was saying and yet proceeded to do exactly what he advised against: asking about your chances for admission!</p>
<p>Here’s what I am reading between the lines – quit worrying so much about chances and expend your time and energy learning more about a subject that truly fascinates you. The movers and shakers of the world are driven more by their curiosities for the subject matter than by pedantic formulations of perception.</p>
<p>With or without any chance threads some kids don’t come to CC. They known their chances at some schools are entirely based on things other than their stats, things that are out of their control.</p>
<p>Chris, thanks for all your thoughtful, candid, and prompt responses to my comments and questions. Very helpful insights, indeed. Best wishes for gathering a great incoming class.</p>
<p>Ditto Dave’s thanks. Your responses have been very helpful. And since no good deed goes unpunished, here is yet another question:</p>
<p>I write the “Ask the Dean” column for College Confidential. The questions that land in my inbox most often (by far) are along the lines of “How do I handle a suspension from high school, and how much will it hurt my college admission odds?”</p>
<p>Each reply I make is tailored to the specific situation, but the gist of my advice is usually:</p>
<p>**-Explain the infraction and, above all, what you learned from it.</p>
<p>-If the misdeed took place a while back, point out that you have maintained a spotless record ever since.</p>
<p>-Provide corroboration via your recommendations that you are indeed a good citizen and have learned from your past error.</p>
<p>-Expect that infractions that suggest extremely bad judgment, character flaws, or a possible threat to your future college community (e.g., breaking into a teacher’s file cabinet to steal test questions, bullying, committing hate crimes or weapons violations) are more likely to impact admission odds than those that are viewed as “common teenage foibles” (sharing a beer with six others under the basketball bleachers or streaking the field hockey game with half of the football team). However, I also point out that not all admission officials are created equal, and what may appear to be a harmless prank or typical teen behavior to one committee member may carry more gravity with another.**</p>
<p>So … here comes the question (finally) …</p>
<p>What’s your own take on how disciplinary action can affect admission “chances”? Could you please explain how “Yes” answers to the “Have you been suspended …?” question are handled in MIT committee meetings? Can you provide an example or two of times when student misdeeds were forgiven … and when they weren’t?</p>
<p>It depends entirely on the circumstances. And I’m not sure I can share specific examples. But as a general rule, students should definitely explain what happened, as should the GC, because there is often an assumption that no info is bad info (i.e. if you mark that you were suspended, and then don’t say anything about it, we assume there is nothing good to be said). </p>
<p>It’s impossible for me to be more specific than that - the text you bold above about “not all adcoms created equal” is pretty accurate. </p>
<p>Just tell us what happened, don’t be too beseeching; facts and apologies (when meant and warranted) are sufficient. </p>
<p>And for what it’s worth for your worried students, I was suspended in HS for a “common teenage foible” (admittedly not that particular one) and I turned out fine ;)</p>
<p>Thanks again for all your help, MITChris, and especially for that bit of personal information. I think it will help a lot of anxious teenagers to relax a bit!</p>
<p>chance threads are helpful because you get to hear what others think about your application based on the information you give. granted, most posters are merely fellow applicants who need to be chanced themselves, but I see chance threads as an exchange of ideas and opinions. when I write an essay or creative writing piece, I often feel the need to show it to someone to get a second opinion, and that someone may range from a teacher to a fellow student to even my little cousin at six, who knows little about writing or most likely the topic of my writing. I appreciate others for sharing what others think even if they characterize my essay as mediocre, or give comments that I find to be wildly off the mark, because I have a basic understanding of myself and a certain confidence in what I’m doing. it’s not the fault of chance threads that certain high schoolers may come to take what some other random person say as an authoritative fact rather than just another opinion. wanting to ban chance threads is like proposing to burn provocative books for contaminating the thoughts of impressionable youth. the solution is for the one posting the chance thread to search for answers and opinions on a wider scale and be confident in his own judgment, and for other posters seeing questionable chancing to jump in right away to offer a different opinion.</p>
<p>chance threads are super helpful when one poster points out something about another’s application that the second person might have missed and had not known. when I tell you that that 2000 SAT is kind of low for MIT, I’m not criticizing your character or ability, but rather merely pointing out a potential weakness in your application to give you the opportunity to possibly improve upon it while you have the chance. </p>
<p>I’ve seen instances where one poster would think he’ll never have a chance because he attends bad high school in an obscure area and never tood any AP classes because his school didn’t offer any, and had to work many hours a week at jobs/taking care of sibling/chores. in that case I saw another poster pointing out that his supposed “weakness” is actually a strength if presented in the proper light, because he succeed in school, had good grades despite the circumstances, and should not at all hesitate to reach for a good school if that’s what he wants. I’ve seen overconfident posters who thought they were shoo-in at top schools just because they had 2300+ on the SAT and therefore only applied to like the top 10 schools from newsweek ranking. in which case, many will be able to tell them that no, it’s important to actually research the schools and look for ones that fit your needs and preferences, and that it’s always better to be safe, to apply to some less selective schools through personal research that you know you’ll love. it’s a sharing of tibits of past experiences gathered throughout the years and passed down from year to year on CC through these discussion threads and chance posts.</p>
<p>@MITChris - Thanks for your helpful and insightful posts. As a high schooler preparing to applying to colleges this fall, this gives me a fresh perspective on what college admissions are all about.</p>
<p>I want to know more about the last two discussion topics you listed: “what you would contribute to campus” and “match for the MIT campus / culture.”</p>
<p>What sort of contributions do qualified applicants tend to make? And what makes someone a match for the culture?</p>
<p>Like they’ve said, mostly reassurance. I mean, hearing “yeah, you should be fine,” from ANY source, no matter how unqualified they may be to give advice on the topic, sets people’s mind at ease. That covers about half the threads. The other threads, the "Chance me for MIT, Harvard, Yale, Princeton"s, well, I really can’t say, because admission into those schools are equal parts general excellence and chance, which the comments will pretty much tell you.</p>
<p>I must say that I find the chance threads a very strange idea. I don’t think they yield any real insights generally (of course, there are a few exceptions) - largely because what you tend to see are nervous high school students all trying to either reassure or tear down each other , all using a very limited amount of information and rumor.
I understand that the waiting period is a horrible time, and can be very difficult for most kids (and parents) - I think that the real reason the chance threads keep going is that it gives kids something to do while they wait.</p>