But I think that the concern is about job placement–especially in the context of one who is not intent on going to grad school.
@prezbucky Exactly. S19 finding mostly similarities between them all when we visit. My husband is not sold on the liberal arts school model and wants him to apply to selective universities where career placement is a bigger deal. I am trying to figure out how those departments work at different LACs so that I can show him that S19 can have the best of both worlds for him. A small school (which is very important to him) and a leg up on job placement as well. If some schools on his list are better at that, I need to know. Understanding, of course, that finding a job is also the student’s responsibility.
I am not an expert on career services or job placement at the schools listed (nor in general…), but I would suspect that most LACs, even elite ones, are best known regionally… and less so in other regions. Universities tend to have more national name recognition.
That does not mean that recruiters and interviewers are into “rep” only (or even mainly…), of course, but if the job is in Boston and two candidates are otherwise equal, the Bowdoin grad might get the nod over the Grinnell grad. And the opposite may be the case in Minneapolis or Chicago.
I’m sure these schools have competent career advising and departments, but I can’t be more specific than that.
Choice of major and vocational preference are personal choices, something the school has little impact on. Having companies visit campus to interview students – that is an advantage a school can offer – but even with that, the kid must choose the path and show initiative.
I do have a fair amount of confidence in, at least, the good reputations these LACs enjoy in their respective states and regions.
U.S. News reports early career earnings for all of these schools, as well as for Grinnell. By this measure, Hamilton places at the top of this group as well as at the top of the rarefied group that comprises the ten NESCAC LACs. With a midrange view, Hamilton in particular could be worth full price.
@homerdog, career services is fantastic, and I strongly recommend your family make contact with them to get your questions answered. Grinnell is top-notch with amazing resources. Students get internships at top companies. Comp. sci. majors are regularly recruited by Google and the like. The primary reason you will see different outcomes for Bowdoin and Hamilton in the finance and consulting worlds is that those schools draw far more preprofessional students with Wall Street/consulting aspirations, and there is no question that those schools are equipped to satisfy those aspirations by dint of location, well-greased connections, reputation, and smart students. Grinnell attracts brilliant students with a rather different orientation on average. We all know certain companies preferentially recruit at schools with certain demographics and name recognition. I do not know whether the Big 10 consulting firms recruit at Grinnell, or how a student with such aspirations at Grinnell would best go about satisfying them. Nor do I know their success rates upon trying. It would be important to find all that out from the career-services office. I hope you will be pleasantly surprised, but have no real knowledge of that area.
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@homerdog You ask about career services at Grinnell. They do an excellent job. Talk with them directly for details, but the internships and job shadowing opportunities are impressive. They meet with students starting the first year to put together a plan and start building skills. Beyond the standard training and exploration, I’ve heard stories about dining etiquette lessons and checking out suits for interviews.
Top universities tend to have students who are more pre-professionally oriented than top LACs. Both will provide well connected alumni networks. The alumni networks for top LACs are likely to be fiercely loyal and extremely helpful. That is certainly true for Grinnell. All top schools will have alumni scattered throughout the world, but they will also have areas where alumni networks are particularly strong. If your son has a geographic area he wants to target for employment, he may want to focus on schools with a strong network in that area. Grinnell has especially strong networks in both Chicago and Minneapolis.
In terms of job placement, Grinnell does very well. A lot of students follow the grad school, professional school, or peace corps/TFA paths after graduation, but I’ve always been impressed with the quality of positions landed by those who go straight into the job market. Other top LACs will also serve your son well in that area. If it comes down to a choice between Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Carleton, Grinnell or any other top LAC, he really can’t go wrong. The final decision should focus on fit.
@Andrew2199: I find the last two sentences in your post #25 above to be a bit conflicting. For example, for one desiring to work in IB on Wall Street, there are clearly LACs which would not be a good fit. I also disagree with the lumping together of all top LACs as if they all offer a similar, non-distinguishable experience.
@Publisher @Andrew2199 Part of “fit” is also the outcome of the graduates. I have no doubt that S19 could find his people and a major he loves at any of those schools. Since S19 is undecided but pretty sure he wants to work after undergrad, we are now just trying to focus on likelihood of different job options. And, of course, he hasn’t even hit “send” on applications yet so we really don’t know what his choices will be. Trying to get some info up front because there’s a good chance he will be deciding between Grinnell and at least a couple of other full price LACs. He won’t have much time in April to make a decision. We will try to get him to all accepted students days but there are only so many schools he can get to in the three weekends in April!
For what it’s worth as a parent who navigated this process last year and who’s son selected Grinnell. My experience is that one of the great things about Grinnell is it’s open core curriculum. You only have one required class and you enter in late August without being registered for any other classes. And although you select your top 5 tutorial selections none of them really match a “major” path and your professor/advisor may work in a department that you will never take a class in. You work with your advisor the first few days of new student orientation to select and register for your remaining classes.
You go to this LAC to use the next 4 years to figure out your jam. If you and/or your son already know what he wants to do and where he wants to be in 4 years, it might not be the right fit. We just went through class registration process and the parents who are the most apoplectic about the process seem to have this core curriculum mindset at a school where anything is game. At Grinnell it seems counterintuitive to chart out your 4 years in advance. Those that have, seem to be freaking out that the classes they assumed they could/would take are not avail to them or Might not fit the college’s or the advisors view of things.
I will also share an observation that this is a school that draws smart quirky kids. Which is great for some but not so great for others. being the smart kid and/or overachiever is baseline at Grinnell. For most students that’s a box they happily shed and expand their interests and use it as an opportunity to explore and grow. For some, being the smart kid was the only thing that defined them (it defined what they did inside and outside of HS) and they struggle to excel outside that bubble. Imagine a high school community with all the same interests and activities but the stereotypes no longer apply. You’re all taking the “same” classes. You need something other than your school work to define you.
Plus: the college has just announced the Grinnell College Poll which will put them at the center of the presidential election process and will not only increase their national visibility but increase student opportunities for research etc. This was also the largest first year class ever in Grinnell’s history and I suspect they will continue to grow in size, influence and visibility over the next 4 years.
Grinnell’s distance from Wall Street and the pre-professional ethos of many of its academic peers is a reason many seek it out, a strength rather than a weakness. It is nonetheless possible to forge an excellent business career after Grinnell on the strength of the education, reputation, support and connections. Not sure about which East Coast companies recruit there, though.
@MatzoBall S19 not looking to work on the east coast. If he went to an east coast school and those were his options, I’m sure that would be fine with him but I’m willing to bet he’d rather stay in the Midwest. Hard to know since he’s only 17 and hasn’t even started college yet. Wall Street is definitely NOT an interest and I do not see that changing.
I understand, @homerdog. You mention in an earlier thread that he wants to get away from the privilege and elitism of his high school community and to be in a small school that is academically high-end but not extreme in its intensity. Schools that have pipelines to big consulting firms tend to draw from a prep-school demographic that is wealthier and more inclined toward the business world than “learning for the sake of learning.” There are a few schools that somehow manage to straddle the line of both. Carleton (which is less socioeconomically diverse than Grinnell, but still a very “pure intellectual” environment) and the University of Chicago, which I understand he found too intense, could be examples. He might also look at Wesleyan. Bowdoin could be a great choice if he is okay with their preppier vibe. Look at Brown and Haverford as well in case he could see himself fitting in there. Grinnell could also be an excellent fit. Best of luck to you.
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@homerdog : I find it troubling that your son wants to work as an analyst or management consultant after finishing undergraduate school, but has no interest in graduate school. Fortune 500 companies also have targeted recruiting & depend in very significant part in hiring from their pool of interns.
Most MC firms expect one to get an MBA after 3 or 4 years.
It is akin to stating that one wants to be a doctor but has no interest or intention of doing a residency or even in attending medical school. Or work in law, but will not attend law school. Of course, other options exist in these fields such as becoming a Physician’s Assistant or a paralegal, but that seems to be a half hearted interest in those respective professions.
P.S. Tying your son’s situation into this thread on Grinnell College, it seems to be a poor fit as Grinnell seems to send a lot of graduates on to graduate schools. Compounding the confusion is that for more practical oriented degrees, large universities such as Texas A&M or Penn State do a much better job than do LACs.
If he wants to stay in the Midwest, then Purdue, Wisconsin, Minnesota and other Big 10 universities might be a much better fit career wise for one not intending to go to & not interested in grad school.
@Publisher Never said he wanted those jobs. We are just making sure that, wherever he goes to school, there are connections to all types of jobs including corporate ones. WE think he’d like consulting but he has no idea what it is and we will let him decide as time goes on. Just don’t want his options limited before he decides.
@homerdog: I got that impression from post #9 in this thread.
For connections to all types of jobs, one should attend a large national university. Even Williams College & Amherst College cannot & do not provide access to the breadth of jobs as does, for example, Texas A&M.
In order to be exposed to a wide variety of opportunities in Fortune 500 companies–as you mentioned in an earlier post in this thread–the best option is to be at a school that places interns with the Big 4 accounting firms (they do consulting & other non-accounting functions as well as accounting) & with the major regional accounting firms. This gives one exposure to many large international corporations & usually leads to a wealth of exit opportunities. Again, one needs to be at a target school.
Santa Clara University is a prime example for internship opportunities in Silicon Valley.
P.S. It is becoming clear to me that you may not understand the realities of today’s opportunities among large state universities. While your son may be comfortable for four years at an LAC, everything you write about him screams large state school Honors College.
@Publisher that post just says he wants to work after undergrad. I didn’t mean to say he wanted a particular job. He MAY want to be an analyst or a consultant…who knows?? We know lots of kids who do that. All I was asking was if companies come to Grinnell to hire or even if Grinnell students have had success getting jobs in those fields. I didn’t mean to make it sound like he knew his path. He does not.
I understand that & I understood that. But the fact remains that for real world employment opportunities without grad school, he would fare much better in a large state school Honors College or special group such as the Univ. of South Carolina’s finance honors.
Or at any large university located in a major metropolitan area such as Georgia Tech or the University of Washington.
The reason a lot of Grinnell kids go on to grad/PhD work is that they are intellectuals who are interested in furthering their educations – it’s personal choice.
Someone who wants to work after graduating will very likely be able to successfully navigate that path with a Grinnell degree in his pocket.
(the schools don’t force the kids’ hands; they choose their own paths.)
To a large extent it does mean that the post undergraduate world will be unnecessarily difficult for a graduate of a small, rural, Midwestern LAC.
Internships & externships & co-ops are vitally important for securing job offers with major employers.
I cannot emphasize enough how incorrect the advice is in post #37 above.
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Grinnell students do get GREAT internships and externships, but maybe not at the firms @Publisher is thinking of. Not sure about those.