<p>That is highly debatable. unless one thinks that the anti-hook has nothing to do with clinging to “techniques” that have stopped working long ago and created armies of overly similar applicants. If Suzuki virtuosos, individual sports’ athletes, and STEM gurus once ruled the earth, diversification in the EC and class choices are appreciated and perhaps rewarded in the high stakes admissions. The motto is more of a WE than a ME! </p>
<p>Does a linebacker who happen to excel on the field and in the classroom stand a better chance than a first violonist who spends all his time pursuing solitary awards? </p>
<p>Packaging – to use that term-- does work, and it HAS worked wonders for the Asians for several decades, as the statistics amply confirm. While academic/music packaging still does deliver, the golden days in the genre are over. Time to change the methods! </p>
<p>@EllieMom
“It’s not that an education at an elite school is “useless.” But it is not a good fit for everyone.”</p>
<p>You don’t know if an elite school is a good fit, until you try. Further, I don’t think that schools are like soul mates, that God created just one perfectly fitting school for each child, and each child should search for the perfect fit. </p>
<p>College is just a college. Place to learn. Elite college typically provides 1)better education 2) more opportunities. 3) brand name recognition for future employers, and 4) smart college mates, that will be your friends for many years. </p>
<p>And I suspect if you take the salary numbers for the top 1600 top students from the Missouri graduating class and compare their salaries with the top 1600 at Harvard the numbers would be closer together. (referring to mamalion’s post on page 24). That said, future salary was not my consideration when I went to Harvard (or I wouldn’t have become an architect) and it was not a consideration for my children, though I admit I was quite impressed with the starting salary numbers that were coming out of the School of Computer Science at Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>(And yeah, this Harvard grad has lived in NYC, California, Germany and the NY suburbs since graduating.)</p>
<p>I am totally perplexed by this exchange. Does Stanford ask “Why Stanford” in the first place and, if the school does indirectly, does anyone truly think it expects a PC answer? </p>
<p>As far as I know, hare are a few questions Stanford is interested in seeing answered … honestly! </p>
<p>1.Stanford students possess an intellectual vitality. Reflect on an idea or experience that has been important to your intellectual development.
2.Virtually all of Stanford’s undergraduates live on campus. Write a note to your future roommate that reveals something about you or that will help your roommate—and us—know you better.
3.What matters to you, and why?</p>
<p>Am I missing the boat then, when I tell my D that she should view the “why _______?” as a real chance to ask herself that question, get information about the school, and think honestly about why it would be her choice? I don’t want her to parrot some politically-correct jargon or follow a “how-to-get-into-best-schools” script. She’s making decisions for her future, I want her to reflect, research, and consider. The college essay gives her a chance to do that. </p>
<p>"(Chinese) families take education more as “work” than anything else, so the attitude is that if you are doing the work, you’d better do your utmost best and try to achieve the best results possible." </p>
<p>What’s wrong with this attitude? I am not Chinese, BTW, although I am an immigrant. </p>
<p>^^^^^ All my live I am living by this attitude. “if you are doing the work, you’d better do your utmost best and try to achieve the best results possible.” and I wish my kids would have the same attitude as well!</p>
<p>I really dread that my kids may pick up any other attitude! </p>
<p>"That is 100 kids too many that feel they have failed! CC is a small community…there are thousands more who feel the same. You may dismiss it fluffy, but each of those kids have a real story. Way to be cold.</p>
<p>People should experience disappointment. It’s okay not to succeed at everything. It is not a good idea to encourage thousands of students to wallow in self-pity."</p>
<p>You’re right people should experience disappointment. But a student who gave it his all who is being told by his parents that he “failed” because he “only” got into Cornell - it’s his parents who should be deeply ashamed of themselves for thinking that way, not him. Because, see, a kid who “only” got into Cornell (or Duke, or Vanderbilt, or whatever) didn’t “fail” in the least. He succeeded, beautifully.</p>
<p>And please, stop with the coy pretending that there aren’t plenty of these types of stories on CC every year. </p>
<p>Re: the We vs Me. Many, many Asian American kids do the “we” thing very well. And come across as energetic and witty and willing to tackle challenges as best they can. This supposed anti-Asian bias drives me nuts. Don’t knock these kids based on violin, tennis or Amy Chua. Many of these kids get it. And seem like nice, grounded kids, despite hard work and full schedules.</p>
<p>EllieMom, you have the right approach. It applies to any question that requires some sense the kid matched himself thoughtfully, whether or not it is specifically “Why Stanford?” Eg, the roommate question can be highly revealing. Or the nutty UChi questions or NYU’s.</p>
<p>" If an Asian student manages to get into an elite school, he/she gets big respect in the community. His parents as well. "</p>
<p>Yes, because there appears to be the mistaken belief that only this select handful of top schools are worth going to. That’s the belief that we’re talking about, californiaa. And I’m pretty sure based on the totality of your posts that you yourself subscribe to it. Don’t tell me you’d be indifferent about your kid choosing Vanderbilt over Stanford.</p>
Let’s see. So how many Chinese immigrants you know from polls, research, or just anecdotes said that they wouldn’t send their kid to any private college other than Harvard? And exactly how “much” more or less do you find non-immigrant families believe Harvard, Tufts, Rice, WashU, and Dartmouth are equally worthy (for lack of a better word).</p>
<p>“that a determined, motivated smart kid can get almost anywhere he needs to go” … bless this motto.</p>
<p>Let’s start with the first step, and send the determined, motivated, smart kid into Ivy-Stanford-Caltech-MIT. Why wait for 4 years in a second-tier college?"</p>
<p>This is precisely what we’re talking about. Why on EARTH would you think anything not Ivy/Stanford/Caltech/MIT is “second-tier”? Do you not realize that such an attitude makes zero sense and isn’t consistent with any sort of reality?</p>
<p>This thread is intersecting with our family’s personal experience so I will toss in a few words. My Chinese immigrant wife was, just as Hunt described, thinking that should our S not gain admittance at HYPMS then he should go to the state flagship – UT-Austin. Well, he was only interested in and applied to just one of the high reaches, Stanford, and, like the great majority of applicants, he was rejected. However, for years Rice had been his “dream school” and he was accepted there. His mother, my DW, had always opposed him going to Rice, but he convinced her to go to the accepted students day at Rice with us before deciding whether she would give her approval. At Rice, after seeing that S seemed to fit so well, and after having an enjoyable time and being impressed with Rice and the general atmosphere, she relented in her opposition (S and I thought she would). What may have been the most important factor was that while there she had conversations with other Chinese immigrant parents of prospective Rice students (Rice undergrad is 20+ percent Asian) that seemed to reassure her that it was a good choice. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl,
“People should experience disappointment. It’s okay not to succeed at everything.”</p>
<p>My D participates in math Olympiads. She never succeeds above certain level. She is good in math, but not brilliant. Is it a disappointment? NO! The atmosphere of an Olympiad is great. An opportunity to meet really genius kids. There is nothing wrong or disappointing to realize that you are not as good in swimming as Michael Phelps and not as good in ice skating as Michelle Kwan. </p>
<p>College application is different. Again and again we see the stories of average kids that are accepted and kids with better grades are turned away. </p>
<p>Colleges admit kids “holistically”, they evaluate kids, not their achievements. It is very disappointing when some adcom considers a kid with perfect grades to be “plain and uninteresting”. </p>
<p>There are no “average” kids being accepted at Ivies and elite schools, californiaa. </p>
<p>But anyone - for the gazillionth time and no one ever answers - if the student body at the Ivies is full of all those undeserving kids, why do you want your own kid there? Why don’t you send your kid to the “tier down” where all the really-should-have-been-Ivy-but-rejected kids are going? Why not WashU or Duke or Vanderbilt for your daughter?</p>
<p>You have a lot to learn, californiaaa. Many of your statements are just false. For your daughter’s chances, you need to get accurate. You take too much at face value- without digging for more specifics. </p>
<p>Start with what Stanford says it looks for. Not what some CC parents or your local friends say.</p>
<p>*College application is different. Again and again we see the stories of average kids that are accepted and kids with better grades are turned away.</p>
<p>Colleges admit kids “holistically”, they evaluate kids, not their achievements. It is very disappointing when some adcom considers a kid with perfect grades to be “plain and uninteresting”. *</p>
<p>Sometimes those colleges are admitting students with a sincere interest in areas those colleges do very well. Sometimes parents try to steer their offspring into creating profiles that take advantage of this fact but rarely do I believe that to be successful. Reading your posts, I believe your very best chance of “getting her in” will be to support HER interests as much as possible and give her unlimited opportunities to develop them and then apply to schools that provide the best opportunities to further that interest. Even if she doesn’t get in, she has done something worthwhile with high school. The road you are on is probably bound to be unsuccessful on many levels. You have time to change direction. </p>