<p>In theory, it should not be a bad thing. In practice, offering a smörgåsbord of 35 to 40 AP courses comes at a price, including a reshuffling of the resources. Rather than deploying the best and more educated teachers to the students who need them the most, the schools are pushing them to choose the plum assignments related to teaching the kids who want to learn (and often do it outside the 4 walls of the schools.) And the push includes offering financial incentives to the AP teachers, if not the kids directly (even if the system pretends to be funded vy outside sources.) </p>
<p>If the practive is “acceptable” at a magnet school, what role does an extended AP program (or the IB program) serves at a school that cannot crack 500 on the average SAT section? </p>
<p>And what is there to say about the loss of about 2 weeks of schooling to host the program testing during the school year? Do not get me wrong … I am all for an AP program, but not the boondoggle that currently exists. I would much prefer to see an expanded program on a few chosen basic subjects (English, Math) and all the rest punted to a program based on the current SAT Subject Tests. Want to present a test in Italian or Japanese culture? Knock yourself out and take it on a Saturday morning! </p>
<p>There are reasons why the AP and the IB flourish at abysmal to barely above acceptable public high schools, and are not as popular at the most prestigious private schools. </p>
<p>As far as the public high schools, their mission should be to serve everyone with equal attention and dedication. Well, perhaps, they mostly do as they seems to fail about everyone. In different degrees, that is. </p>
<p>“Rather than deploying the best and more educated teachers to the students who need them the most, the schools are pushing them to choose the plum assignments related to teaching the kids who want to learn” LOL. One of my daughter’s AP teachers said she was the only one in the department willing to teach AP. It’s more work.</p>
<p>As far as serving everyone goes, our middle school has a small army of LD teachers, and the “Average class sizes” cited seem like some kind of fantasyland to me as they pack 34 honor students into a classroom so that they can offer classes of 8 students to those who need more assistance. Parents of high achieving students pay taxes also and their kids also deserve an appropriate education.</p>
<p>@menloparkmom - actually, I am a dad. I did a terrible job selecting a name, “fluffy” was taken so I tacked on my DS graduation year…not realizing that people would think I am a student…stupid me.</p>
<p>@gravitas2 - well, if you liked acceptance rate (technically, we would deny people who didn’t apply in order to get a negative rate), wait till you see the T-shirts. ;)</p>
<p>Seriously? Yes, it may work. Beware that you can’t patent business practices (only copyright your materials). Thus, if you are successful - beware of copycats. </p>
<p>A few posters indicated that because of their cultural bias, Asian families only consider applying Ivy+SMC and a state safety - the Ivy or bust mindset. Some even posted that Asians ignore the likes of Tufts or Vanderbilt as not worthy. The enrollment data simply does not support these claims. Almost all top 50 universities have higher percentage of Asian than the overall demographics of this country (Penn State & UW Madison are at par, Yeshiva just a percentage point lower). So clearly, Asians aren’t thumbing their nose at schools that are outside of the top 10 or so. </p>
<p>Perhaps the reason we see disproportional number of Asians applying to and enrolling at tippy top schools is simply that a disproportional number of Asians are tippy-top qualified. I believe this is due to the cultural emphasis on education, and not “one must go the best school in the land”.</p>
<p>"A few posters indicated that because of their cultural bias, Asian families only consider applying Ivy+SMC and a state safety - the Ivy or bust mindset. Some even posted that Asians ignore the likes of Tufts or Vanderbilt as not worthy. The enrollment data simply does not support these claims. Almost all top 50 universities have higher percentage of Asian than the overall demographics of this country (Penn State & UW Madison are at par, Yeshiva just a percentage point lower). "</p>
<p>Just because all top 50 unis have higher percentages of Asians than the overall demographics of the country just reflects that Asians make up a disproportionate amount of the applicant pool (and accepted pools) relative to their size in the population. But it neither confirms or denies the hypothesis stated above.</p>
<p>Oh, I totally agree with that concept. Unfortunately, the model we have is based on granting a monoply to government-ran schools in exchange of the promise of providing a fair and equitable education to all. That is a fair cry from pretending to do so, and hope the undesirable will drop out as soon as they legally can – which they do according to the uber-deflated statistics shared by the ED. </p>
<p>How about this proposal? You have teachers who clamor for more recognition and want to be considered professionals. We have a school system that, for all intents and purposes, functions about 30 weeks of 5 days or 150 days. Yes, I know it is supposed to be about 180 to 190 days, but that is as real as a three-dollar bill. </p>
<p>Why not change the system and open the school all year long? The kids who need remedial help could go to classes appropriate to their levels. Advanced students could flock to … advanced classes mimicking a college summer class culminating in the AP exam at the end of the summer. There would no need to travel to some obscure (and expensive) summer program as every HS would have. </p>
<p>The teachers? Oh, they finally could back up their claim that they work all year long – like you and I do! Of course, they would want more money? Easy peasy – tie the extra load of work (if that is even the case) and cut the underbrush that tax every school budget, starting with the amazing cost of administration. Teachers would not have to travel to far flung destinations such as Hawaii for advanced training. They could get it right at home by practicing their skills,</p>
<p>Worrying about loss of opportunities in the summer for the students? There is no reason to think that the summer school could not be blanketed by 1-2 weeks of vacation around Memorial and Labor day! Finding vacation time has never been problematic in our public system of education!</p>
<p>Utopia? Of course, it is! We will NEVER get the teacher work more than their contracted (extorted in my book) CBA and they need their summers as they are dedicated to watch their own kids during the vacation days, and making a few bucks running special programs for the benefit of … the crazy parents who think that tutoring is essential for their kids to keep up. </p>
<p>Back to Taco Bell Stanford for a sec … what kind of Taco Bells are being built in your area? They must be works of art. Around here, the Taco Bell buildings are concrete boxes sprayed with fake stucco and painted in trim colors including purple, orange, red. Cheery, perhaps, but not inspiring. The last time I was ever in a Taco Bell that resembled California Mission Revival (and barely at that) was at one of the original Taco Bells in Sacramento back in 1970s and 80s. That original Taco Bell even had a bell hanging from its roof line in the spirit of Mission San Jose or San Juan Bautista (go watch Vertigo.) Back then, Taco Bell’s food even came a little close (a teeny tiny bit) to resembling Mexican food. People do know that what Taco Bell serves now has absolutely nothing to do with authentic Mexican, right? :). Even with my frequent exposure to Taco Bell and Spanish Mission Revival, one of the quintessential architectural styles of my home state, I never once thought of a Taco Bell as I walked back and forth across the Stanford campus. Each to their own, of course. And, yes, there does appear to be a Taco Bell in Palo Alto. Wonder if it looks like Stanford? Of course, why eat at Taco Bell when In-N-Out is right down the road.</p>
<p>The tragedy is, as I discovered last night after I posted, is that my beloved La Costena, along with the neighboring La Bamba, were torn down a couple of years ago. When and if I get back to California, I better not find a Chipotle built on that hallowed ground.</p>
<p>What were we talking about? Oh yeah…crazy parents…</p>
<p>“If the practice is “acceptable” at a magnet school, what role does an extended AP program (or the IB program) serves at a school that cannot crack 500 on the average SAT section?”</p>
<p>Biologists told me about an interesting fact. If you want to teach a group of chimps a new trick, you better teach a high ranking chimp and prize him with something that would solidify or enhance his group ranking. Than the whole group of chimps would be motivated to learn this new trick. On the other hand, if you teach a low ranking chimp, other chimps won’t care about learning this trick. Sorry to compare kids to chimps … but we are all primates.</p>
<p>If school district spends most of its efforts on low performing students, and doesn’t care (doesn’t prize, doesn’t promote) high achieving students, it’s counterproductive. It doesn’t set a positive example. </p>
<p>Disclaimer: Kids with disabilities - is a different story. Obviously, school should spend lots of efforts and money to help them. </p>
<p>“Rather than deploying the best and more educated teachers to the students who need them the most…”</p>
<p>In one school district, ESL students were grouped in small clusters with the best teachers. Several years later, the number of ESL students grew, substantially. Because smart parents and smart kids realized that it is better to be labeled ESL, and get better curriculum. Kids bragged to each other about making mistakes in English. They learned that “bad English” = good teachers = more computer time = cool friends = no homework. </p>
<p>You can’t motivate kids to learn by promoting and pampering “low-academically-achieving” kids. </p>
<p>I also got myself off on a tangent today as a result of the Stanford architecture discussion. I followed @xiggi’s link and before I knew it, had googled images of the following schools and their respective architecture styles: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Penn; and then the various types of architecture: Beaux-Art, Collegiate Gothic, Georgian, Mission Revivalist. Whew! Who knew! Beautiful campuses – all! Even Harvard, which was summarily dismissed as having the ugliest architecture of the bunch. Really? It’s just different. And looks good in its setting, just as Stanford does. That was a fun way to spend the afternoon. Now, I’ll have to take my computer home this evening to do what I actually get paid to do during the day!</p>
<p>" Unfortunately, the model we have is based on granting a monoply to government-ran schools in exchange of the promise of providing a fair and equitable education to all." The government doesn’t have a monopoly. There are about as many private high schools as public in our area. Some are quite well funded with nice campuses, and they are large enough to have significant academic and extracurricular offerings. I wouldn’t send my kids to any of them. The public schools blow them away, both academically and in extracurriculars. </p>
<p>When I read this, I realized that our school district already does that to some extent. I had just never thought of it that way. </p>
<p>There are two summer school semesters, each 3-4 weeks long. It is a little more laid back than the rest of the year, but it serves students at every level of the academic “pyramid.” Kids on the higher academic track take state mandated Mickey Mouse courses (PE, consumer ed, health, drivers ed) during the summer, so they’ll have time for more rigorous academics during the school year. Freshmen who are signed up for AP courses are encouraged to take a “prep” course to make sure they’re ready for college-level work. Kids can take math courses to make sure they’re keeping up with the track they’re on or push ahead to more accelerated levels. There are “academy” classes “by invitation only,” which is district speak for remedial classes. (That one cracked me up once I figured out what it really meant.) There are also “camps” for teams and groups that have an audition/try-out element to prep kids who want to participate but need help developing skills at qualifying levels. That’s just what is offered off the top of my head…I’m sure there are other things that I don’t know about. The school is only truly “closed” for 1-2 weeks in August. </p>
<p>And this, by the way, is a Title 1 school that is still failing to meet federal academic standards. It’s not for want of trying. </p>
<p>So what do you propose they do with those kids…just let them continue to go down a path to failure? Kick them out and let them roam the streets? </p>
<p>Of course, they are. Where do you think the term serial applicants comes from? </p>
<p>Trying to draw conclusions from the first page of the USNews rankings and the first 10-15 LACs isn’t telling the full story since it is assumed that those schools meet the “prestige” bar. Now try the same exercise at Rhodes College (still prestigious) or Conn or Colorado College? And you do not need to dig that deep. Compare the Asian applications among all-female schools. How does the very well known Wellesley and its pipeline to MIT or Barnard with his perceived backdoor entrance to Columbia to say Smith and Mt Holyoke. </p>
<p>I specified that in MY community, agape, that mindset is what I’ve observed. Other posters have noticed the same viewpoint where they live, so the attitude among Asians of “top school or flagship” likely exists to some extent. A tendency is not an absolute, just a prevalent pattern. As with every generalization, this one also has exceptions. Our flagship has a decent engineering program, and for pre-meds a state school makes financial sense, so that could explain why I see what I do here, as those two career paths are very popular among many Asians. </p>
<p>Would it help if I rephrased it along these lines: The government maintains a controlling monopoly through a funding monopoly. Only public schools and their chartered offsprings can avail themselves of “public funding.” </p>
<p>Private schools do indeed exists, but the stranglehold on education through a monopolistic government policy is all too real. </p>
<p>But, for what it is worth, this really should not be an issue worth debating. All we need to do is read what Friedman wrote about it in 1962 or Anthony Bryk in 1993 to understand the finer points. Freedom of education, as it is guaranteed in several constitutions around the world, is very different from our own version. </p>
<p>The main point is that the lack of true and real competition is de facto delivering a system that does not need to improve or perform. </p>
<p>Honestly, you can’t save ALL these kids. Some kids will end up on the streets, no matter what.</p>
<p>I’ll suggest a system of magnet schools. When best students are identified and send to better schools. This will create a system of “elite” schools vs really bad schools. Segregation by abilities. Some kids would succeed, some kids would fail. It gives kids a very real and obvious way out of gang infested street life. “If you study, you are promoted”. Simple and obvious. </p>
<p>It may sound horrible, but such system saved my father, who was born in extreme poverty, lived on the streets, literally. Magnet school helped him to go to college. </p>