<p>I fully admit to being one of those “CRAZY!” parents. Yep, no shame here at all!</p>
<p>With 3 of my 5 kiddos has D1 athletes they did not get there with wishes and rainbows. Especially since we did not have a lot of money to spend on any of the sports. Daughter worked as an assistant coach for the younger kiddos on her team to work off her dues for her USA Swimming and USA Diving club. Worked out for us that one of the swimmers on the high school team could give her a ride to practice every day and twice during 2X a days. We needed to know her times and dive scores for schools for recruiting and for filming purposes. Boys picked sports that really didn’t any cost to the family.</p>
<p>All 3 were on winning teams in high school and college, they enjoy winning alot more than losing! But the real benefit besides the health and fitness was the leadership skills they developed and the camaraderie they still enjoy to this day. Daughter was elected captain and MVP for freshman through senior year and was more proud of that than her state championships because she had to be elected by her team rather than chosen by the coaches. At that time we were living in the more competitive zones so her team was large, very large. Both boys went on to be captains for their 3 varsity sports again appreciating it so much due to the respect they earned from their teammates. The boys are still close friends with many of them to this day. Both boys were in 2 seperate weddings just this year for previous teammates.</p>
<p>When son had his med school and now b-school interviews, did they talk healthcare? Was all about his sport…And at the academies your sports training comes in handy…especially if looking at special forces, and the new emphasis on the urban commando training.</p>
<p>If “crazy” is knowing too much about the sport and their competition then I was way TOO crazy. And would not want it any other way. Am pleased with my kiddos’ results and their journey to get there. As a single mom with a low family EFC our college options were more limited than some. So we moved 3000+ miles to a more affordable state with better in-state rates, worked our fannies off and the kiddos loved their college experiences and now grad school adventures. Son is getting is looking forward to reunions at p’ton and he thanks me repeatedly for all we did to make all that a possibility. He forwarded to me a copy of his award letter for his full fellowship for b-school with 2 words…“thank you.”</p>
<p>And this crazy parent has a copy of the TR “man in the arena” hanging up in her family room where everyone can see it. Along with the “to whom much is given, much is expected” quote, except in our family it was “much is demanded.” My children would easily agree with the “crazy”, I’m not a helicopter parent. </p>
<p>I am a fast attack Apache helo!</p>
<p>It answers the question I am often asked about how and why the children are as successful as they are especially considering our financial circumstances when they were younger. Oh and some talent maybe, but lots and lots of hard work.</p>
<p>A sideways move: when I was in law school, test results were posted by number. Those ID numbers were supposed to be secret, but someone had gone to the trouble to break the code and knew what everybody made. Results may have been mailed to us, I don’t remember, but I do know I lived far away and never went to look at my spring test grades, which were posted after school was out, yet always knew what I made because someone would tell me. One of the code breakers would inevitably call and tell me. (Dang lawyers!) Knowing other people’s stats isn’t new or even confined to sports. </p>
<p>I am sympathetic to GFG because little facts do stick in my mind like bugs to flypaper and I am a terrible eavesdropper. I could tell you what the mom in front of me ordered at Starbucks. I wouldn’t ask about some of these school related details like grades and test scores and I wouldn’t volunteer them unless asked, but I have probably overheard them. People talk. Hey, we come here to trade info. </p>
<p>But back to sports. In sports, and especially speed based sports, I don’t think it would unusual to know your kid’s PRs and to know what numbers she has to beat to level up. And if she is really really good, I don’t think it would be unusual to know her chief competitors’ numbers. </p>
<p>Finally, fwiw we are lucky in that our coaches DO kick kids off the teams when they miss practice or otherwise break the athletic code of conduct. Even stars. Even coaches’ sons! Kids do get to miss games for recruiting purposes, though, which drives me crazy, especially when it hurts the team. </p>
<p>PG, what if your kids were in an honors/AP class (like a varsity team) but there were a whole group of kids in there that just wanted to have fun, who asked a lot of questions that sidetracked the teacher, or who needed much more help and slowed the class down. They missed class (practice) a lot, and then the whole class (team) had to review the work. Those kids are having fun, they are really enjoying the information, but they just aren’t at the same level as your kids? You wouldn’t notice this? Your kids wouldn’t complain that they weren’t getting the class they signed up for? Colleges wouldn’t notice that this ‘honors class’ hadn’t covered enough material for the students to pass the AP test?</p>
<p>Or what if the orchestra director let everyone in, didn’t care if they improved, and just played the lower level music over and over because that way everyone could have fun playing an instrument? Or if the play director let everyone have a turn at the lead in the musicals because those kids just want to have fun too, and while they can’t carry a tune in a bucket, no one is supposed to comment because the student is having fun (while everyone else is miserable)?</p>
<p>We get it, you don’t fine sports have any value but you have to see that your view of ‘just have fun’ isn’t realistic.</p>
<p>It is possible, though, to be serious about something without being (openly) competitive. </p>
<p>S is a competitive person and tends to judge his performance against a yardstick set by other people—teammates as well as opponents. When he was in high school and college, he knew the stats as well as the qualitative strengths and weaknesses of everyone on his team and used that information to motivate himself and, in the case of team sports, help his team win. He enjoyed sports largely because he loves competition.</p>
<p>D, on the other hand, couldn’t give a hoot about who gets what or how her score compares to another person’s. She doesn’t know nor does she share information about scores and placements, etc. But that doesn’t mean she’s not serious and working to be her best in what she’s doing. </p>
<p>Ta da!!! Seems it’s the moms who are the crazy parents!</p>
<p>Oh…, TheGFG…:-/ As parent of a 2-sport varsity athlete, I was with you for the most part. But stuff like this makes me want to pull my hair out. Due to Title IX and recent advances in female sports, there are more adult women who have athletic backgrounds. I look forward to the day when moms are looked at more favorably as supporters of their athletic daughters, and not just as blabbers on the sidelines. </p>
<p>I remember information that interests me, and forget stuff that doesn’t interest me. Pizzagirl, I just don’t agree with your view of what should interest people and what shouldn’t. We definitely get that other people’s business doesn’t interest you, and that you (and others) don’t understand why anybody needs to know your business. (My wife is like this, too, by the way.) But a lot of people are just not like this–they are interested in other people’s doings, and are quite willing to share their own as well. It is possible to talk about things like grades, scores, college admissions, sports achievements–as well as problems–without it being some kind of hypercompetitive bragfest. It can be mutually supportive, in fact.</p>
<p>I was thinking about when my daughter was on the mock trial team. Several of the parents were lawyers, and we were often asked to comment after a trial. I think all the parents who did this were tactful, but they gave both praise and constructive criticism. I don’t think anybody’s feelings were hurt. I also talked with my daughter about her performance, and those of her teammates and opponents, so she could learn. The coach was very good, but he was a high school teacher, not a lawyer. (Sometimes his advice was better than ours, though, because he know more about mock trials than real trials.) I don’t feel that any of this behavior was crazy, but clearly there were some parents a lot more engaged than others.</p>
<p>“However, you can’t have it both ways. If my kid congratulates the NMF finalist, that means he had to pay attention to the fact the kid got the honor, which you seem to think is a sick focus.”</p>
<p>Aren’t there facts that just go in your brain long enough to say “congratulations” to the person and then you forget them? On the day of my kids’ hs graduation. I “knew” who the valedictorian was, because gee, the name was right there on the program and the person was giving a speech. Maybe at that moment I knew what college the valedictorian was going to - maybe I even asked my kids, or they mentioned it. A month after, would I know the name or college or anything outstanding? Nope. Poof. Gone. Not my kid. Same thing with award ceremonies. </p>
<p>I’m typically far less annoyed with folks who want to know facts and figures about my life than I am with those who want to tell me what I should care about or how I should feel about things. </p>
<p>Nearly everything I picked up in the way of hs gossip was other moms actively blabbing to me. One way or another, one degree or another, whatever venue, whatever topic. (IRL, I seem to be on the receiving end, a lot. Some woman I knew a few hours- we were both theater moms- told me how she figured her girl was sexually active. Huh? it gets worse. Andit’s all ironic because I am very selective about what I share with others.) People are people. You can nod, say something nice, then pay it little heed and filter your own comments. You can walk away or not sit near them, next time. It’s also a choice to let it drive you crazy. </p>
<p>How many here are moms and would allow for some of this sports talk among dads? How many know armchair quarterbacks IRL? It’s sports. </p>
<p>Plenty of people enjoy professional sports–they enjoy reading about the doings of sports figures, and some rather obsessively learn all kinds of stats about people they’ve never met and never will who play baseball and football and you name it. Even if they don’t obsess over the stats of individual players, American men are pretty much expected to know which major league teams are doing well, who is in the Superbowl, what their chances are thought to be, etc. A guy who doesn’t know this stuff is considered a little strange. So, I find it a little odd that PG feels so strongly that it’s “creepy” if a parent who is sitting through endless hours of sports competitions, year after year, finds some interest in tracking how the players are doing, just as so many “normal” people are entertained by doing for the professionals. </p>
<p>I have absolutely no interest in professional soccer, I wouldn’t recognize an upset in the NCAA basketball tournament if it hit me over the head (although I admit to having heard that Duke is supposed to be good), but after years of spectating, I do know if it’s an accomplishment or a given if my daughter’s soccer team wins against various teams. If my kid is in a racing event, I’d want them to know who they are up against–do they have to leave that person behind to make a PR, or should they not feel they are doing poorly if they are being left behind because they’re competing against someone who is way faster? Personally, I find it odd that so many people care more about the doings of paid professionals they have no connection to than of their own kids.</p>
<p>There’s a certain irony of ANYONE participating in this forum claiming not to be interested in anyone else’s information/gossip/business. The who raison d’etre of this web site is just that sort of exchange of information, or gossip, if you will. </p>
<p>There’s a difference between hearing and internalizing that information. Do you comment on it? Or make judgments about what awards/acceptances were “deserved” based on what you heard? Do you memorize so many details about a particular kid that you feel justified in making a call about whether or not the kid deserved it? That’s what some parents here do, and there’s a stalker like quality to knowing so much about any one kid who’s not your own. </p>
<p>If we pretend that behavior’s normal, what does that teach our children about privacy and appropriate boundaries? Does it make a difference if the person taking such extreme interest in your kid is the same gender? Suppose the child was your daughter and the adult compiling the data was a man? Or a woman compiling stats on your son? Would you be comfortable with that? Suppose it wasn’t school related, but someone who knows where your kid works, where they live, how much they earn, what they pay in rent, where they work out and how often, and where they buy their groceries? Just because a man your daughter knows casually happens to overhear and have an interest, are you going to be comfortable knowing he’s compiling that much data about her life? In neither case does the data affect the person compiling it, so if it’s acceptable in one case, it should be in the other. But I know few parents who wouldn’t be uncomfortable with the second situation, so it’s understandable to me if they don’t like the first any better.</p>
<p>“Aren’t there facts that just go in your brain long enough to say “congratulations” to the person and then you forget them? On the day of my kids’ hs graduation. I “knew” who the valedictorian was, because gee, the name was right there on the program and the person was giving a speech. Maybe at that moment I knew what college the valedictorian was going to - maybe I even asked my kids, or they mentioned it. A month after, would I know the name or college or anything outstanding? Nope. Poof. Gone. Not my kid. Same thing with award ceremonies.”</p>
<p>Then what is the point of giving the award in public? If only the parents should care, why not just present it in private, or just send a letter? Why present it at all, as just knowing that your child finished high school should be honor enough.</p>
<p>I don’t believe this at all, Pizzagirl. I think you know exactly who is ahead of your children in class rank and where they are going to college. You stated a few weeks ago that your children deserve to go to LACs with others in their intellectual level, to not have to take classes at a state school with others who are just going through the motions. How would you know who those peers are if you don’t keep academic score?</p>
<p>I am certain that many other families at the local high school were very familiar with my kids’ grades, scores, college applications, college admissions, and more. That doesn’t bother me in the least, and I don’t find it stalker-y at all. This was a topic that fascinated many people in their program, and it was talked about quite openly by most students (those who didn’t share this kind of information were outliers).</p>
<p>And in other communities, like our church, adults know a lot about the lives of children other than their own, because that’s what people talk about. People are genuinely interested about the activities of other people’s children, not because they are stalkers, but because they are friendly and engaged. It’s not a matter of “compiling data”–it’s more like, “So-and-so told me that her daughter Cindy just graduated from Maryland and will be going to grad school at Texas in the fall.” This interests us because we’ve known Cindy for a long time.</p>
<p>There’s a difference between hearing and internalizing that information. And a difference in hearing it and going nuts because someone said it or took interest when it was said-- or didn’t actively devote some mental energy to wiping it out of memory. Stuff happens. Privacy and appropriate boundaries? In high school sports??? You suggesting GFG is a threat and that all this is the same as stalking? </p>
<p>I don’t think this is the same as in academics, except Academic Bowl or the like. How do you suggest knowing Susie can usually make that long shot is like knowing her gpa? One is public. The other can be kept private. The latter can get out because…someone blabs. </p>
<p>some x-post</p>
<p>But PG, a question: don’t you know lots about the adults you are closest to? And as a friend, don’t you try to keep in mind some of their needs or sensitivities- or particular challenges or interests? Don’t you account for this when pulling a casual group together? Not, “Mary lost her job and so did Bob.” Or “both their kids were top 5%.” Or “both their kids led their sports teams.” But maybe some sort of non-invasive index.</p>
<p>"I don’t believe this at all, Pizzagirl. I think you know exactly who is ahead of your children in class rank and where they are going to college. "</p>
<p>No, absolutely not. I couldn’t name more than 25 kids in my kids’ hs graduating class of 500 - my kids’ friends and a few others that I knew because I was a Brownie leader years ago. I might recognize a few names if I heard them, but no, I don’t know who they are. Feel free not to believe me, your choice.</p>
<p>“You stated a few weeks ago that your children deserve to go to LACs with others in their intellectual level, to not have to take classes at a state school with others who are just going through the motions. How would you know who those peers are if you don’t keep academic score?”</p>
<p>Well, I have one kid who’s not at an LAC, but it is not necessary for me to “know” or “evaluate” the academic score of individual other students for me to know that all else being equal, I want my kid at a good college. </p>
<p>@twoinanddone My opinion is that the poster you referenced is trying to convince herself, not us, about the screeds we see over and over again, such as merit of the elite schools/Ivies, athletics, crazy parents, peer knowledge, in particular. That’s why I don’t get upset anymore when that poster calls me, or the collective Board, “a fool” or “silly”, as is often done. It’s probably not really directed at us, after all.</p>
<p>I kinda like Hunt’s kids, too! Hunt, as someone mentioned earlier, these are not the types of things that are worrisome. I also have similar interest in some of the kids that mine went to school with. I understood where PG was going, though, and it has to do with what could seem to be racking up stats as points of comparison. While I can understand this in sports competitions, taking it all the way to academic and test scores goes to a whole NEW level!</p>