Why I Wish I Didn't Attend Hopkins

Colleges and Universities A-Z Johns Hopkins University
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<p>I'd just like to preface this by saying that this is only my experience at Hopkins. I'm not trying to tell anyone whether or not he or she should apply here or not, but I am simply hoping that you'll consider a few of the factors that I, unfortunately, did not when choosing to apply and matriculate here.</p>

<p>I'd also like to add that I'm a sophomore (so I've gotten a feel for the place), and I have good grades here, a 4.0 GPA.</p>

<p>I chose Hopkins largely because of my interest in science. I wanted to go to a school that would provide me with undergrad research opportunities and give me a strong training in science and good preparation for medical school. So, when I heard that Hopkins liberal arts programs might not be 100%, it didn't seem to be a big deal for me. Yet, when I got here, I soon realized that the "renowned" science programs were, unfortunately, a big letdown. The professors: talented? Yes. Dedicated to teaching and cares about his students? This is true of one of the fourteen professors I've had so far. </p>

<p>What about the rest? Largely disinterested in undergraduate education, at Hopkins simply because it pays well and is a good place for them to get lots of research $$. Indeed, many of my science professors have actually -discouraged- attending office hours, saying that they will meet with students "only in a serious emergency."</p>

<p>Well, I thought, at least I'll be able to get into a good medical school. Turns out that the pre-med committee "screens" applicants. You will only get support from the pre-medical committee if you follow the "party line" so to speak -- that is, if your GPA isn't up to snuff, you can kiss committee support goodbye, something that will sink your application at a lot of med schools. So, the statistic that something like 98% of students get accepted to med school is a bit misleading. It doesn't include the students that got screwed over when they got no support applying. I know personally several students who have had this happen to them and have had to apply to medical school themselves, at a large disadvantage without committee support. Seems a bit harsh when you consider you're paying some $200k for your degree to not have your school even back you up, eh? Well, it's the reality.</p>

<p>Do students who attend Hopkins have better job / internship placement? Maybe, but if you want to go into business, you want to go to an ivy league. Lots of my friends who graduated last year are still looking for jobs (not just in science fields, but in other fields such as writing / journalism). Clearly this is not the university's fault, but thinking that going here will guarantee you some lucrative job that hires Hopkins grads straight out is a fantasy.</p>

<p>Will going to Hopkins undergrad give you any better chance at getting in to Hopkins medical school? Nope. If you don't believe me, go to mdapplicants.com and search for Hopkins grads who have applied to Hopkins med. Several 3.9 GPA /39 and 40 MCAT applicants from Hopkins have gotten rejected. </p>

<p>What would I say to students interested in applying here? Seriously consider your choices and your motivations for doing so. I'll be honest: when I applied here, I was set on medical school and that largely swayed my decision. I can tell you now, without a doubt, that this was a horrible reason for choosing my undergrad institution.</p>

<p>If you have more specific questions about the things I don't like about Hopkins or if you have questions pertaining to your own situation and whether you think you'd be a good fit / would be happy at Hopkins, feel free to reply and ask. Again, I'm not saying "Don't apply to Hopkins." I'm simply saying that I applied here thinking it was one thing and finding out that it wasn't, and I'd like to try to help others avoid making the same mistake.</p>

<p>What am I going to do? At this point, wait it out. It's essentially too late to transfer (and I couldn't afford it), I'm doing fine academically and I'll be able to get into a decent med school no doubt. But if I could do it over again, Hopkins would not be on the list of schools I applied to.</p>

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<p>I agree with this advice: don’t go to Hopkins simply because you want to go to Med School. In fact, don’t go to ANY school simply because you want to go to Med School.</p>

<p>I think your experience is probably on the more unique end. Most of my friends who were at Hopkins or who are at Hopkins are having a wonderful experience and mention that the professors really do enjoy teaching and working with undergrads in class and on research. That said the non-academic life is surprisingly strong - good night life, frat parties, social scene, etc. </p>

<p>I don’t think Hopkins Med School admissions statistics really make a good argument for what is required for getting into a great med school - almost nobody gets in there and any novice high schooler who thinks that Hopkins Med is the average needs to re-evaluate themselves. On average, JHU students are placed into Medical Schools at an exceptionally high rate (3x the national average)- in fact, if you’re coming from Hopkins undergrad with a 3.9/40 MCAT as you say, there are very FEW schools that will tell you ‘no’. This is the same as a kid with a 2400 SAT not getting into Harvard - nobody is surprised - hell, it’s Harvard. Hell, it’s Hopkins Med (admit rate: 3%). If they have a 3.9 and a 40, they’re getting into Med School unless the are a total freak show. </p>

<p>I think your advice is well placed, however; choose your college because of what it offers you on the day to day and overall experience and not because you expect guarantees. Colleges guarantee you nothing. They simply offer you the opportunities to make the most of your experience. Going to Hopkins (or Yale, or Penn, etc) won’t guarantee you a spot in Med School or Law School or anything beyond your four years. What they can offer you is the opportunity to study with some of the best and brightest students of your generation and the opportunity to make yourself the best applicant. Ultimately, I agree: Choosing a college because you want to go to Med School is one of the worst reasons to choose a college. </p>

<p>Wish you the best of luck in making the most of your time at Hopkins. Remember there are thousands of students who wanted the opportunity to study there so do your best to make the most of it. Good luck! :)</p>

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<p>td08. While your experience was not mine, nor that of my 2 kids who also went to Hopkins–I certainly know people whose early reaction to Hopkins was similar to yours. And yes, mid- October of your sophomore year is still early. </p>

<p>What you have to remember is that you are still taking very basic introductory science courses. Such courses, at Hopkins as well as all of its peer institutions, tend to be large and impersonal. Also, it is true that, for many world class scientists, teaching an introductory survey class is more of a chore than a joy. You will also find this to be true MIT, CalTech and other top schools well known for science. It is the rare scientist who enjoys answering a very basic question for the umteenth time.</p>

<p>If you stick it out (as you say you will), you will find that the situation in more advanced courses is very different. As an upper classman, you will be treated like a graduate student–as much a collegue as a subordinate. Also, most of the joy in science will be found in the lab as opposed to the classroom. Volunteer for a research position in a good lab (there are many many good labs at Hopkins–both at Homewood or take the shuttle to the East Baltimore campus–and the opportunities to engage in research are only limited by your imagination) and you will be more likely to discover why Hopkins is so well regarded in science.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that most people I know who felt as you do ended up changing their minds and loving the university by the time they graduated.</p>

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<p>I agree, one can’t make a determination of the college experience until taking upper level courses.</p>

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<p>td08,
How is Hopkins engineering?</p>

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<p>Your situation is not unusual when it comes to medical school acceptance and a rigorous undergraduate college. Hopkins is only one of the schools that falls into the category that you describe. Hopkins is an ideal school for the premed who is truly interested in research as in truly at the top of the pack. And the pack includes the type of kids that get accepted to Hopkins as premeds. Very competitive. If you want a surer route to med school, a smaller, nurturing college is a better bet.</p>

<p>As for getting accepted to Hopkins Med School, I do believe that there are more Hopkins undergrads percentage wise accepted over a 5 or 10 year period in time. That doesn’t mean that the Med school is flooded by Hopkins undergrads; it just means that the accept rate is probably higher coming from Hopkins than from another college. Still not saying a whole heck of a lot since I would put Hopkins premed way up there.</p>

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<p>As far as engineering goes, I don’t really feel qualified to make a judgment since I’m not an engineering major myself. A lot of my friends who are doing engineering seem to enjoy it though, and the BME program is well-ranked.</p>

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<p>I’m just curious…you said if you could do it over again Hopkins wouldn’t be on your list of where to apply. If you could do it over again, where would you apply??</p>

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<p>on the undergrad: do your homework on the school (or any school) before you apply.</p>

<p>looking at online posts on an anonymous forum does not count. duh.</p>

<p>the best way to evaluate a school is to go and see for yourself.</p>

<p>about hopkins med: they look beyond numbers. every hotshot applies there, so you’d be crazy to think that 4.0/40-45mcat (even if you are from hopkins ugrad) would make you stand out. their admit rate is under 3%, which is insane, but the jhu undergrad is the most represented university at the med school. getting in is all about your experiences, goals, and how you’d fit into the institution academically and socially. essays, lors, and interviews are key. example: one of my “mentors” is now a first year med student at hopkins and her GPA was not even a 3.7. she just had a ton of unique experiences and great essays. </p>

<p>hopkins (as a whole) is definitely big on “fit” as opposed to stats.</p>

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<p>exactly why i won’t be going to jhu</p>

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<p>Although I am just a senior in HS, I can say this much-the college experience is what you make it.Johns Hopkins has opportunities available to the undergraduate population that is hardly available at other schools.</p>

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<p>i really shouldnt have skimmed… i missed some serious accusations in your post:</p>

<p>1: my experience with hopkins professors has been great on average. at the very least, i have not have professors ever discourage office hours… most have definitely pushed it - and this is not limited to science courses. i spent just about all of freshman year in gen bio office hours and all of sophmore year in organic office hours. both were huge for me. i’ve been to office hours for math, english, humanities, and other science courses and ive never been discouraged from coming back. never. if you dont mind sharing, go ahead and list the profs you think discourage office hours.i would definitely have to sway you are exaggerating or you’ve had unique experiences.</p>

<p>2 all the talk about the committee is really stupid. dr. V and the office do a great job. their job is to get you as strong as you be can for med school application, and then pick your strengths and write you a strong letter. if you have a 2.0, 22 mcat, do you think you’ll get glowing rec letter? no, probably not barring curing cancer as a EC. time and time again i hear people say the committee weeds out. thats not the goal. the goal is to get everyone in medical school, and the school WILLLLLLLLLLLLL support you even if you go against their suggestions if you are a weak applicant. just dont expect to have them send a glowing rec letter compared to those students who listened to them. our committee letter are among the very best - deans of top med schools come here and say that all the time. the way to get a good letter is to go to the office early and often so you don’t screw yourself over by doing things like retaking a class a million times, wasting summers, not getting to know professors, etc. </p>

<p>3) 'You will only get support from the pre-medical committee if you follow the “party line”"'is a flat out lie. dr. V is always saying you should not have a one-track mind for med school. he ALWAYS says you should find your on path. the office is really pushing for students to take time off and get real-world and medically related experiences, but they never say you have to do this, have to do that. there are certain parts of the application you need (lors, essays, clinical experiences, duh) but you should find your own path to medicine. that’s a key point the office is trying to get accross</p>

<p>and yes going here does help get into med school (but obviously dont just come here to get into med school. that’s a disservice to the school and its ops and other great programs). people with above a 3.3 have a 88% chance of getting in. that’s a published statistic. that’s clearly better than average. the average national applicant has a 3.5 something and the national accetance rate is 45%.</p>

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<p>PS: please ignore the grammar/spelling mistakes :P</p>

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<p>I found this very helpful. Good advice man. I wanna start by wishing you the best of luck!!
Just know for sure that you are extremely bright and talented, and you WILL get into a good med school and be a very successful doctor someday. </p>

<p>Continue to work hard and strive. You are already in a better position for your future than 95% of people your age. Be thankful!</p>

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<p>woulda coulda shouda…<br>
we hear it from all kinds of people on every board.
Question is… are you a ■■■■■ from another school trying to damage JHU reputation?<br>
Or someone who is insecure with him/herself and choices?
Or someone who wants attention by coming on a board like this?
Or someone who is so angry that you want to take revenge on the school for your lack of preparation and put this on a board like this?<br>
Or? Lots of questions run through my mind after reading this post. </p>

<p>If your goal is to truly help others make sure they chose the right school, then you could have done that on a different board or in a different venue. </p>

<p>I don’t think you will be able to sway anyone from applying to or attending a Top 15 Nationally Ranked University with a connection to the #1 Ranked Medical School in the world. But, nice try. </p>

<p>Not all schools fit everyone. Just as not all employers or families or cities or housing or religions fit everyone. </p>

<p>Your healing will probably be more productive with other outlets. Good luck in your healing.</p>

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<p>lagunal, what are you talking about?
Where else should he have posted?</p>

<p>Why does the conversation always return to Hop’s rank? If you loved the school, your statement would have been, “why are you trying to prevent kids from applying to this wonderful place”.</p>

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<p>I won’t dismiss the OP’s post about teaching off hand. I don’t know JHU’s tenure process. If the tenure process emphasizes on research which most research universities do, then there is no incentives for the professors to teach.</p>

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<p>Being a great teacher and a great researcher are NOT mutually exclusive. I think many if not most Hopkins faculty members fall into that category of being a member interested in teaching and their own research. Faculty are teaching almost 100% of the classes for UNDERGRADS so it’s very clear that faculty should enjoy teaching if they want to be a part of the JHU community. Most do in my experience.</p>

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<p>I think that in any research university, you always run the risk of some professors putting research ahead of teaching. A sure way to avoid this is to go to a LAC, but LACs usually don’t have the big names associated them. This fact itself shows that teaching well won’t give you a big name while doing research well will. Again for professors who want to make a name for themselves, there is no incentives to teach.</p>

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<p>I think a lot depends on your department. I’m a junior in the political science department and I have great personal relationships with professors who are tops in their field AND excellent teachers as well. I think I’m getting perhaps the best undergraduate political science education in the country – I couldn’t imagine what could be improved.</p>