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I've always found it interesting that these same people never seem to find the term applicable to the widespread practice of forced segregation of whites and blacks in this country for hundreds of years (under weight of law)
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<p>Not to defend segregation, but if people actually read Plessy v. Ferguson, no where would one find "separate but equal" is not in the document. That phrase was invented by early Civil Rights activists who twisted the written "equal but separate" to better suit their position. If you think about it, "s but e" is completely different than "e but s." That's just something interesting I learned last year.</p>
<p>You have one has farm that's barn has white cows and the other farm has black cows in their barn (separate) However, both barns/farms have the exact same equiptment.(equal)</p>
<p>Equal but separate is:</p>
<p>You have 2 farms with the exact same equipment(making them equal), however one has white cows in the barn and the other has black cows in their barn(making them separate)</p>
<p>Seersucker, they are exactly the same, what are you talking about?</p>
<p>Just wondering. How diverse is the CC community? We don't know all that much about each other, just a pseudonym and whatever information we volunteer. Do the discussions here, including this one, incorporate the various points of view that would be reflected by a diverse community, or are the discussions lacking because the participants represent only a narrow part of the multicultural spectrum? I really have no idea.</p>
<p>wow, those raskily civil rights activists, looking for equal rights!!! twisting those words</p>
<p>when someone resorts to claming that, I find ut really sad...seesucker, what are all your sources, because you come across as a racist and a white power person no matter howmuch you deny it</p>
<p>Your definition of fake diversity is my definition of "diversity." Ironically, your derision of the "official ambassadors" concept belies your support for the idea that "certain viewpoints can only be obtained from certain races."</p>
<p>Actually, I am going to argue that a strictly racially homogeneous college can be more diverse than a college with a "good mix of each." Assume college A and B both have 100 students. College A has one male and one female student from each of the fifty states, all of whom are White. College B has 25 Whites, 25 Asians, 25 Blacks, and 25 Hispanics from the same city in the Northeast. I think College A is more diverse.</p>
<p>I dislike the "certain viewpoints" argument. What is the Black perspective on the tenseless property of Chinese verbs? What is the Asian viewpoint on partial derivation? What is the White opinion on American imperialism? Support for such a concept is tantamount to believing that each individual is not unique.</p>
I've always found it interesting that these same people never seem to find the term applicable to the widespread practice of forced segregation of whites and blacks in this country for hundreds of years (under weight of law), to the practice of institutional racism that determined that those of my ilk weren't "good enough" to sit in a classroom with white children, to the one that dictated that if you weren't a white male, you could forget about being considered for promotion to positions of respect and authority, no matter what your qualifications.
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<p>Allow me to distance myself from "these same people."</p>
<p>Institutionalized segregation was social engineering. People were denied the freedom to choose where they could live and attend schools based on the color of their skin. It was artificially induced, therefore it was social engineering.</p>
<p>Mr. Oliver Brown is therefore a hero for standing up and demanding that social engineering in the form of segregation be stopped.</p>
<p>Institutionalized sexism was also social engineering. People were denied the right to be treated equally in situations where gender mattered little based on an act of God at conception. It was also artificially induced, therefore it was also social engineering.</p>
<p>And, affirmative action as currently practiced is no different. If we remove it, then the racial composition of the undergraduate college campus will radically change. One need only look at Berkeley and UCLA for natural evidence.</p>
<p>As the notion of "separate but equal" really being equal was a farce, the previous assertion that affirmative action had a "minor impact" was nothing but a lie.</p>
<p>Seersucker, they are exactly the same, what are you talking about?
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<p>The order of words is important. When separate is first, the phrasing suggests that the main priority was to disconnect the groups. How can equality be measured when the groups are not side by side to compared?</p>
<p>When equal is first, the main priority is now focused on equality. Separation occurs only after the two groups are allotted the same thing.</p>
<p>They are surely similar, but not “exactly the same.” If they were identical, then why did the switch from the original court decision even occur?</p>
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<p>when someone resorts to claming that, I find ut really sad...seesucker, what are all your sources, because you come across as a racist and a white power person no matter howmuch you deny it
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<p>I am not a racist. I am not resorting to anything, I was merely pointing something out I heard in a lecture about W.E.B. duBois last year. </p>
<p>What are you going to do? Fire me like Imus? Wrongfully accuse me like the Duke laxers? People need to chill about race.</p>
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<p>A troll is a fake person trying to incite a giant reaction, such as the threads like “I’m a Mexican with a 1.7 GPA and I got into Yale.” I’m not fake. The original intent of this thread was to try to have a discussion on why others believe diversity and multiculturalism is something that should be celebrated. This is not an Affirmative Action debate. I am referencing the entire PC culture consuming America these days.</p>
<p>ok, that man's argument (the one in the video, I mean) is inherently flawed. i mean, yeah, the people building the house might experience intercultural conflicts, but that would occur because they weren't exposed to other diverse viewpoints lol. if you asked some black, white, asian, israeli and palestinian kids (yes we have them all) at my school to work together there wouldn't be a problem at all. actually, it's happened many times before and there isn't. he's using an example of the results of a lack of diversity to explain why diversity isn't inherently good...kind of circular reasoning, no?</p>
<p>as for AA in college admissions...though i'm not an URM i would definitely not go to a school that was really homogenous. one of my criteria in choosing a college was cultural/racial/religious diversity.</p>
<p>"I dislike the "certain viewpoints" argument. What is the Black perspective on the tenseless property of Chinese verbs? What is the Asian viewpoint on partial derivation? What is the White opinion on American imperialism? Support for such a concept is tantamount to believing that each individual is not unique."</p>
<p>fabrizio, thank you SO MUCH for saying that. you worded it so eloquently.</p>
<p>The house example is valid. He stated complete ethnic diversity is not additive, while diversity of skills and ability is good. You merely mentioned ethnic diversity. </p>
<p>Also, by the New Haven listed as your location, I'm assuming you go to Yale and not Gateway Community College. I'd imagine a group of competent college students could work together.</p>
<p>Thank you. My response to Tyler was heavily influenced by Dr. John McWhorter, who I believe was the first to point out the main problem with the "race provides unique perspectives" argument.</p>
<p>Fabrizio, I'd be interested in a link of Mc Whorter's point of view if you have it available. I've read him, the Thernstroms, Williams and Sowell. In fact I enjoy in the manner in which they support their arguments. However, I respectfully disagree with some of their viewpoints. People of common ancestry share common experiences, common cultures, and sometimes common perspectives. In Race and Cultures, Sowell even admits as much. Of course there are exceptions in each group. </p>
<p>My children are African American, yet in many ways are atypical. College bound, attend(ed) private prep schools, much higher than normal test scores, participation in non traditional extracurricular activities, i.e., soccer and lacrosse, tennis. Have many close friends of diverse backgrounds and live at a higher standard of living that is atypical of not only other african americans but of the average american, eventhough we(their parents) are not college educated. Yet they live in a community that is surrounded by many the blights that affect the black community, poor public schooling, regressing neighborhoods, crime, drugs, ect. They know what it is like to be treated differently because of the color of their skin, to have lesser expectations from their teachers, and to be ostracised by their own peer groups because they strive to excel and take advantage of every positive oppportunitiy presented by whomever. They have gained invaluable lessons from others who are different than they are and are learning to connect with those with whom they have commonalities. Having those experiences gives them the potential to incorporate that into their academic and intellectual experiences and share that with others they come into contact with.</p>
<p>The diverse backgrounds that they have been exposed to and learned from will make them much more productive, resourceful and broad minded than any of their relatives before them. That's not rhetoric, that's real. Their lives are living proof of that.</p>
<p>and fabrizio, what if the topic was something about sociology, racism, the war on iraq, politics, welfare, race relations, philosophy, ethnic literature, any non math/science based topic (besides i guess any random abstracts you want pull out, chinese characters? **<em>?), or even *gasp</em> affirmative action or the education system. </p>
<p>Now i think having ethnic diversity would provide quite a bit diversity of view points. </p>
<p>And in my own opinion, if you don't believe that diversity is something to be celebrated and something to strive for, then you're not truly an American. In societies where people strive for and appreciate diversity, such as the progressive regions of the US, their is a lot less oppression and people are a lot happier with themselves. As opposed to places like North Korea, where diversity=death, where people are oppressed and sent to concentration camps. </p>
<p>Maybe some people just need to be happy that races are progressing and getting back on their feet. Be happy for them, appreciate it, and be open and tolerant.The less you allow yourself to feel threatened or uncomfortable, and the more you do what you can to help and aid historically oppressed groups, the faster they can recover and reach an equal level. At that point none of this will be an issue.</p>
<p>It feels so much better to just be happy to help. It's not all about you and your loss, but about helping your fellow man. Be happy to help.</p>
<p>"what if the topic was something about sociology, racism, the war on iraq, politics, welfare, race relations, philosophy, ethnic literature,"
That's a reason why diversity of opinions is good, not diversity of ethnicity.</p>
<p>"if you don't believe that diversity is something to be celebrated and something to strive for, then you're not truly an American"
Yes, because clearly America is about diversity above all else. It's actually listed in the Declaration of Independence.</p>
<p>Now all sarcasm asside, America is more about freedoms and equality than anything else. Freedoms and equality for everyone. But that doesn't in any way mean that diversity, especially forced diversity, is inherently beneficial. America is simply diverse as a byproduct of freedom and equality. And again, it's not always bad nor always good, but more and more people treat it as though anything that isn't ethnically diverse is evil.</p>
<p>"In societies where people strive for and appreciate diversity, such as the progressive regions of the US, their is a lot less oppression and people are a lot happier with themselves."
Yay generalizations! Also, I bet you that the average red-stater is happier with his life than the average blue-stater. But I don't think there's much data for either of our sides, so let's drop it.</p>
<p>"Maybe some people just need to be happy that races are progressing and getting back on their feet. Be happy for them, appreciate it, and be open and tolerant."
No one's saying that the advancement of minority communities is bad, or something to be prevented. Nor would I actively seek to insulate myself from other cultures. The point here is that something that is ethnically diverse is not automatically better, nor is something that is all-white any worse. (I use all-white here because no one ever dares criticise all-black, all-hispanic, all-Korean, etc. institutions)</p>
<p>its not a matter of daring to criticize all-black, all-hispanic, or all-korean institutions. Its just a matter of the fact that those groups share a very special and powerful bond as a result of being minorities. And other groups just feel uncomfortable being their when they don't feel that bond. White people are always welcome to join ie "African Americans for a stronger black america", but its just a matter of do they feel comfortable enough to join.</p>
<p>And diversity of ethnicities also helps in those types of discussion because allows everybody to see how being a different race affects your view or opinion or interpretation of any opinionated issue. You can't truly have the most effective discussion of, the civil rights movement, when everybody in the class is the same race. You can get more insight into the effects of that kind of situation from somebody of a race that was directly affected by it. Same goes for something like a discussion on "identity crisis that second generation asian-americans face.</p>
<p>"Yes, because clearly America is about diversity above all else. It's actually listed in the Declaration of Independence."
-what are you even talking about? I said in my opinion, and it's a very valid opinion because America is all about celebrating diversity. except backwards southern areas. THAT was generalization.</p>