<p>ID has a sense of humor. Good man. I'll let the next 100 per capita stats go without a grumble.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, it isn't just frats.</p>
<p>Originaloog:</p>
<p>That was one of the incidents I was referring to. The ex-Swarthmore student responsible for the carnage described in the article had arrived late to the all-campus party after drinking at a frat pledge event. Of the fifty or so frat boys, they have racked up an impressive three arrests, one suspension, and a pending lawsuit so far this year. It's really been quite an impressive display of stupidity. With several months left in the season, the Phi Psi and DU boys are apparently shooting for an all-time conference record.</p>
<p>I don't know that drinking is more prevalent today than when we went to college. It may just be a function of the fact that we as parents are better informed because 1) compared to our parents generation we went through the experience and know firsthand what there is to be afraid of and 2) there has never been a generation of parents more hands-on and involved than ours. Some of that involvement has been for the better. In other cases, the overinvolvement has been a negative, as when parents push their kids to do too many activities, not allowing kids to be kids. Maybe it is no wonder from that point of view, that these kids are particularly prone to finally just wanting to let loose. Even so, I still think that colleges are uniquely situated and bear a big part of the responsibility to promote good health and habits in this age group(including avoiding alcohol excess) and should limit some of the more dangerous behaviors.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We now have more than 70 unnecessary posts. #2 had the answer: "Because they didn't learn responsible drinking when they were younger." This was from a German. They enjoy drinking, mostly wine and beer, including relatively young people, and have no college-level drinking problem.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I'm pretty sure scarletleavy is an American living in Germany. Yeah, I remember her talking about having to learn German...</p>
<p>Well, here's a statistic that might blow some of the assumptions made in this discussion out of the water. Simply put, the number of freshmen who report they drank beer "occassionally" or "frequently" during the past year has dipped significantly since 1981/1982. Then, 79.5% of men, 68.6% of females reported they drank beer occassionally or frequently. Among this year's freshmen the numbers are 49% of the men, 39% of the females.</p>
<p>Of course, I suppose they could all have switched to hard liquor. :)</p>
<p>Source: National Survey of Incoming Freshmen, conducted annually by the Cooperative Institutional Research Project, this year's numbers based on surveys of over 263,000 incoming freshmen. Link:
<a href="http://www.geis.ucla.edu/heri/norms05.html%5B/url%5D">www.geis.ucla.edu/heri/norms05.html</a></p>
<p>I think a better question would be- why is drinking so acceptable?
Our culture still finds drinking humourous. I can think of several tv shows where drinking is a regular thing for some of the characters, yet, no one seems to think it is time to intervene.
Smoking has reached a point where, except in the movies it just isn't attractive, think of using Ratso Rizzo to sell cigarettes -
But drinking alcohol is still the way that "you" celebrate.</p>
<p>Carolyn:</p>
<p>I don't remember when MADD came on the scene, but the percentages from the early 1980s would have represented a time when drinking beer was legal for most college freshmen. It was perfectly normal for an 18 year old to go out for dinner and order a beer with the pizza.</p>
<p>Id was even suggesting on another post that the Parents "celebrate" with alcohol the fact that their son did not get accepted into a frat. Why would they celebrate with alcohol that fact that their son was not going to join an organization that would undoubtedly lead to his excess consumption of alcohol?? Go Figure.................</p>
<p>I thought he was being ironic. ;)
But I will emphasize my point, that we as a culture rely much too heavily on alcohol as a social lubricant . A few threads ago, someone, questioned, what they would think if alcohol wasn't available at a wedding reception?
Of course there are religions who don't use alcohol, but I actually did not want any alcohol at my wedding reception for various reasons.
This is seen as highly unusual.
But since we use liquor so much, and it is so prevalent in adult life, why are we so surprised when young adults, take to it so swiftly?</p>
<p>I still remember one of the great paradoxes of when I was in college. </p>
<p>I was an ROTC cadet. We thought anyone who would touch marijuana or other drugs was a complete loser. One of our favorite past times was to go to the quad on Friday afternoons and see which "lefty" group was staging a protest and get our kicks out of the "obviously" drug-affected behavior.</p>
<p>Friday evening, we would all head downtown and play pool or go to a party and eventually wind up falling down drunk.</p>
<p>Hey, it made sense to a 19 year old kid. One was legal, the other one wasn't.</p>
<p>It all comes down to wanting to get stupified. If one method is said to be ok, then it is going to get a lot of partakers.</p>
<p>This is what I commonly refer to as my stupid years.</p>
<p>a recent lehigh incident:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bw.lehigh.edu/story.asp?ID=19359%5B/url%5D">http://www.bw.lehigh.edu/story.asp?ID=19359</a></p>
<p>Can you imagine being the owner of the "pudding" house...and I wonder if she recovered the ring??</p>
<p>Let us all remember that several animals self-medicate with substances in the wild, and all will in captivity if such substances are available.</p>
<p>I believe there is a significant difference between us and the animals.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong per se with alcohol. There are parts of this world where I would be far more comfortable drinking beer than anything else (and I hate the taste of beer). There is however a problem with relying upon substances to alter your state of being, particularly if you have a habit of doing so.</p>
<p>* Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we were put into this world to rise above*
:)</p>
<p>Interesteddad, Good point about the change in legal drinking age. That could definitely explain the difference in those numbers. And, as I said, they were only talking about beer drinking --- no mention of hard liquor.</p>
<p>Carolyn:</p>
<p>I do think the national reduction in drinking by entering college freshmen is significant. The non-drinkers represent a signficant, and often academically desireable, customer base for colleges. To the extent that this group bases college selection on perceptions of the social scene, they create a problem for elite college marketing. On the one hand, the "work hard/play hard" promise of steadily flowing booze sells to part of the customer base. But, on the other hand, an increasing number of potential customers is turned off by the drinking at some of these schools and specfically looks for alternatives. It would be interesting to see whether demand for substance-free freshman dorms is increasing.</p>
<p>Although this does not directly relate to drinking, I thought this letter from the President of Davidson outlining his rejection of sororities clearly stated the admissions factor. Specifically, he believed that the presence of sororities would be viewed negatively by highly qualified academic female applicants:</p>
<p>The artlcle about Duke admissions posted here recently talks of a concious institutional decision to distance their marketing from the "work hard/play hard" brand identity.</p>
<p>Let me put out a question for controversy. Why is there
[quote]
a problem with relying upon substances to alter your state of being, particularly if you have a habit of doing so.
[/quote]
if there is no functional or health degradation on the part of the person doing such relying? I ask because I need to give guidance to some young people and am being asked this question.</p>
<p>Well I could give you a very theological answer that would engender more argument than this forum could bear, but let's skip to what we can probably agree upon...</p>
<p>First health... the vast majority agree than usage of mind altering substances increases detrimental effects on the brain and other organs over the long haul. Some of them can create life-threatening conditions in the short-term. Many times use of these substances creates mental instability that wrecks people's lives. I've seen real life examples of Rev. Jim (from the old Taxi series) and it is not pretty.</p>
<p>Second economics... It is the definition of throwing money away. Some of these drugs create dependencies that will suck money out of a person faster than lightning.</p>
<p>Third judgement... It is severly impaired when under the influence and can cause people to do great bodily harm to themselves and others.</p>
<p>Fourth societal... Go take a drive down through the seedy part of any metro area of any size, and you'll see crime and societal decay directly linked to alcohol and drugs. There are few things more heart-breaking than an 18 year old crack addicted mother selling herself for her next hit while ignoring her child.</p>
<p>Moderation is the key. Presuming to tell young adults that having some beers with friends will make you a street drunk is just what makes young people tune you out. It's false in the vast majority of cases and even the more naive person knows this. Teach some moderation and reasonable safety precautions instead of preaching the road to ruin is in a beer glass.</p>