<p>My guess is that eventually the number of Asians will increase at all the elite private universities, as there simply is no long term way to sustain the current system (it will be challenged in court, just as women are challenging discrimination against them as discussed in another thread right now). The current situation is a transition as universities develop other ways of creating diversity that can withstand legal scrutiny. I’m not sure what the eventual per cent will be, but it will probably be somewhere between what it now is at UC Berkeley (asians are the largest group now, with over 40%) and the current 16% at Yale. I’d wager more than 25% but less than 35%.</p>
<p>Any ideas among you smart commentators on this thread of what would be a better system? Since Yale will not adopt a system anything like UC Berkeley but also cannot continue forever to keep out so many asians just because they “lack leadership qualities” (I feel this is code for discrimination just as it has been against many other groups previously).</p>
<p>Well that is because when Yale publishes the demographic breakdown of the school no one includes 21.4% is Jewish. Btw that is the actual percentage of Jewish people at Yale, it was published in The Rumpus or something.</p>
<p>There was a long, long thread about this recently. A few things that I think came out of it are the following (although certainly not everybody on that thread would agree):
There is some evidence that top schools are limiting the number of Asians they admit in order to preserve some level of balance between white and Asian students.
However, the evidence that this is happening is not terribly strong, and there are other possible explanations for some of the disparity (such as kinds of ECs, and preference for majors).
Preferential admissions for URMs is a different issue than limiting admission of Asians vis-a-vis white students. Discussing them as if they are the same issue leads to confusion.
There are cultural differences between Asian and white students that lead to some of the disagreements about this, and that also may lead to some of the disparities in admissions. For example, Asian students (especially those who are internationals or recent immigrants) often think that it is unfair for a person with lower grades and scores to be admitted over a person with higher grades and scores, no matter what other qualifications the admitted person has. This viewpoint often sees “holistic admissions” as a sham (which it really was, when it was used to limit the number of Jews).
Finally, these discussions always contain a dispute about the existence and prevalence of the colorless Asian math/science geek with no ECs except for Science Club, tennis, and tutoring at Kumon. Many people report sightings of these specimens, but others disagree.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a race issue. It’s more of an issue of boldness, making opportunities for yourself, and unusual interests.</p>
<p>Before I got admitted to MIT, my parents kept on telling me that I did not have the SATs, grades, and stereotypical Asian extracurriculars to compete at top schools. I just did whatever interested me. My resume looked less impressive than that of URM’s at my school who got deferred. I simply had great confidence that I would get in; it was all or nothing.
I believed that I was accepted because of the “holistic” view. I wasn’t in a lot of club, I wasn’t the valedictorian, and my SAT was below average for the schools I’m applying to. But overall, I thought my application was really impressive when I submitted it. Maybe I’m just an anomaly and really lucky.</p>
<p>I haven’t read all posts but this is my 2 cents.
I love how this country claims this “color blind” policy when so many of the things they do are exactly the opposite.
If it is the economic disadvantage that blacks tend to have, then take the “individualistic” approach and look at each applicant’s economic situation.
Most of the AA kids who take advantage of affirmative action are actually from affluent backgrounds.
If there are a lot of Asian kids who only like science and math, then I am perfectly fine with the idea of rejecting them so that there will be a more diverse situation.
But, if an Asian and an AA have the similar ECs, similar interests, and background (what kind of school community), and the Asian has better stats, then rejecting that person just based on race seems like the antithesis of what Affirmative Action is supposed to be doing.
I really don’t understand the concept of “color diversity”</p>
So many annoying threads on CC would be considered shortened if people did actually bother to read an entire thread. Pretty much everything possible on AA has been said…and said…and said.</p>
<p>Affirmative action (or equal opportunity, as Yale and other universities call it) is less about redressing wrongs and correcting disadvantages than it is about ensuring a diverse class (diversity in all forms – race, gender, academics, extracurriculars, and more). </p>
<p>There can be big differences between any two people. An SAT difference of a 100 points or so is not one of them.</p>
<p>Most URMs that take advantage of AA are affluent because:</p>
<ol>
<li>Competitive colleges are really the only ones that use it.</li>
<li>Competitive colleges skew heavily toward the affluent.</li>
<li>The affluent are most likely to have the numbers and know-how needed to even be admissible</li>
</ol>
<p>So why wouldn’t most minorities applying to places like MIT be affluent? Everyone else is. It’d be weird if the majority of minorities applying were poor ones…</p>
<p>Just being general, as in this does not apply to EVERY single Asian, most Asians apply to Ivy League schools not because they want to have the best college experience, but because their parents force them to. You wouldn’t believe this, I know a guy that applied to only HPYS and one state school. He thinks even Columbia, UPenn, UChicago are “inferior” schools (which I think is total bs). Put in short, its not the applicant that wants to go, its the parents, so technically the applicant doesnt have actual will. Some people are raised to think that if your school is not HYPSM, you go to a low-quality school (which, again, I completely disagree with)</p>
<p>Asians are viewed as studying machines. Like most people mentioned, they only focus on math/science? We’re typically categorized as people with no lives, as in we have absolutely no social caliber or that we only hang out with our kind (asians). </p>
<p>Even with extracurriculars, some Asians can’t chose their sports. Most parents “persuade” their kids to play golf, tennis, etc. I guess overall, it’s the fact that most asians in general don’t have their own unique personality and rather follow a really standard, obvious, impressive-looking on the outside, but not so good on the inside path.</p>
<p>MrVersatile,
I’d say applying only to HPYS and one state school isn’t daring enough. I am only applying to HYP now that MIT has admitted me. I have a non-Asian friend whose worse: MIT was his backup. He will be going to Oxford. My parents are like that of the guy you described, but I make my own choices. I did not even consider state schools, although I recognized that they can be very good. I do not care about reach-match-safety-whatever, or even where I would fit in. I’m simply looking at places that would give me an interesting experience, where I would have the opportunity to try crazy things.<br>
I rarely study; in fact, I haven’t at all until 11th grade. I don’t hang out with other Asians (there are none); most of my friends are black. (Although my parents really wanted to move to this place with lots of Asians so that I can attend a supposedly better high school.) I did mainly focus on math and science, but that was my own choice. Even before I came to the US, I was considered talented at math and science. My parents tried to get me into tennis and piano, but I had no interest. They took away everything (yes even my school books), but I still found ways to do something useful (origami portfolio). For all the activities they did not allow me to do, I secretly did them anyway and achieved international/national recognition.
Harvard says: “Does Harvard rank secondary schools in the U.S. and abroad?
No. While we understand there are differences in the overall strengths of secondary schools, we are most interested in how well applicants have taken advantage of available resources.”
I think that’s the key point. Doesn’t matter what’s your situation as long as you make the best out of it.</p>