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My friend's daughter at Mizzou was immediately taught the "important" things like not to be photographed with a drink in your hand, not to drink with your sorority Tshirt on, etc.
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<p>University athletic directors lecture their athletes on the same thing. Does that mean one should not play college sports? No, they are just lucky to be educated about the real world and its consequences.</p>
<p>Doubleplay post 23- sorry, just read it: “So why is it that the more "exclusive" a group seems to be (for no apparent reason other than years of carefully cultivated persona), the more that otherwise level-headed girls want to try to get into it?... I'm saying this with regard to the upper-tier sororities that the rushees inevitably get all atitter about...I'm sure everyone here who is at all familiar with the sororities can name that chosen few. The ones that are the most difficult to get into, have a reputation for being the prettiest, the snobbiest, the most "all that"... The other poor sororities that for no apparent reason have not been able to develop this mystique get to feed off the lower end of the food chain. They get the girls who have been cut by the top tiers after the second or third round (in essense, they benefit from being the bottom dwellers). Sounds harsh, doesn't it? But isn't this really the way it works? Really, how many girls actually go out for rush saying, "Hey I really want/hope to get into Zeta Beta Meta (the nice girl-next-door sorority), not Tri-Alpha (the popular "hot" girls)?”</p>
<p>From what I witnessed, the top sororities have, on average, more of the girls who are perceived to be most of the following: cool, charming, good-looking, well-dressed, affluent, smart, athletic, and campus leaders. So what you described is fairly accurate. You can be poor and gorgeous, charming and not good-looking, good-looking but not particularly well dressed, etc. You don’t have to have every quality. I think coolness and charm are probably musts to get into a top sorority. </p>
<p>Doubleplay: “It's strange that the type of sororities that the girls all aspire to (the pretty, sparkling, jet-setter types), are the ones that most guys stay away from in the frat arena (at least my kids do...)- those being the oiled and buffed hunky hair-flicking mousse wearing, work-out-at-the-gym-instead-of-actually-playing-a-sport quasi-jocks. “</p>
<p>My sorority (one of the top two at my school) had some very serious athletes in it – swimmers, field hockey and tennis players, etc. The other one had more jocks than ours did, but we had more campus leaders. Some of those athletes got pretty fixed up at parties, and since it was the 80’s I bet one or two had crunchy hair from time to time. It is hard to generalize. Our sorority tried to recruit “winners’, “high achievers”, and “talented people”. We were really not trying to find empty sweaters. </p>
<p>It is a big misconception that girls in top sororities are meaner, more materialistic, or less serious that those in other sororities. Personally, I think they are mainly girls who make certain things a priority and that is what gets them in. Also, they are probably people who bloomed early in terms of social skills. I bet some of those lower tier sororities had many women who turned out to be swans (if that is what they wanted to be). </p>
<p>At my school, every student there was talented and smart. Even at the easiest sorority to get into, it would be difficult to argue that the girls were “bottom feeders” (I know that wasn’t your term, but what an awful one!). Mainly the derogatory terms assigned to the easier-to-get-into groups had to do with looks, but the top sororities were slapped with nasty-girl labels. People can be mean no matter where you are.</p>
<p>For those with sorority experience - please tell me what would you tell a D (first semester freshman) who may very well not get a bid from one of the sororities that she hopes to be invited to join ? The rejection of the first round has already made her doubt herself. How can it not further hurt her self image and ego if she gets totally rejected ? SUre there are a few sororities that are easier to get into but she is afraid to be labeled with the cruel names that she has already heard them being called - just a different way of damaging her ego and self image although I wouldn’t doubt that the girls are just as nice, talented and worthwhile as the those in the “top tier”.</p>
<p>TwoKidsIn,
People who know me think I was in a sorority- I get asked, “which one?”, all the time. Little do they know that I was shy, sweet, and totally not into the right-fashion sense that you had to be to get into a sorority at my university. (There I was wearing flip flops and puka shells, and everyone else was wearing topsiders and add-a-beads.) </p>
<p>It has little to do with what you will become, who you are deep down inside. Rush is a very physical, superficial process. I don’t care what anyone says- the only exceptions are the ones that have the insider track- it’s very much about first, fleeting impressions. Not to say that people in sororities aren’t good people- I have best friends who were, sisters, nieces…and I love all of them dearly. I can’t imagine anyone going through that process, though, who can honestly say it isn’t rather “dog-eat-dog” in the first-impressions respect.</p>
<p>So, are you somehow lacking if you aren’t that kind of person at the age of 18? That you can’t or don’t want to walk into a room of 200 girls with WhiteBright teeth and pearls, and make your bestest, sunniest impression? How many of us would feel comfortable walking into that situation at our ages (and we’ve had many, many years to gain wisdom and ■■■■■■■)?</p>
<p>Tell your daughter that if they don’t want her, they’re F’ed up. You know the truth.</p>
<p>I feel as if I am a broken record</p>
<p>Fraternity and sorority recruitment is a **mutual selection **process. </p>
<p>Keep an open mind. </p>
<p>Go back to all rounds for which you are eligible.</p>
<p>For parents: reputations of even the strongest national GLOs vary from chapter to chapter. The same GLO will have a reputation of being wealthy and elitist at University of X and then down the road at X State University, the same group’s chapter has the rep of being scholarly. At one Ivy, the group is somewhat social and at another LAC, the chapter is known as the jock house. Chapter reps can change over time at a school as well as there is 100% turnover of membership every 4 years.</p>
<p>Twokidsin</p>
<p>At My D’s school, there is no rushing until sophomore year.</p>
<p>I recommend you read the following threads</p>
<p>Sorority update (for momwithquestions and runnersmom) posted by Fredo who recaps her D’s experience not getting in to the house she wanted freshman year</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=144944&highlight=sorority[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=144944&highlight=sorority</a></p>
<p>To Rush a Sorority or not to Rush
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=121020&highlight=sorority[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=121020&highlight=sorority</a></p>
<p>hope these threads help.</p>
<p>Doubleplay: “There I was wearing flip flops and puka shells, and everyone else was wearing topsiders and add-a-beads”</p>
<p>OK, so you and I are definitely in the same age group! I was wearing topsiders and add-a-beads (so I could look very country clubish at my very preppy school, even though I had never even seen the inside of a country club). If I could go back in time, I would wear puka shells and flip-flops (and maybe throw in a poet’s shirt for good measure).</p>
<p>Twokidsin “How can it not further hurt her self image and ego if she gets totally rejected ?”</p>
<p>I think it certainly will hurt. And then she will get over it. She chose to play the game, and she knew that was a possibility. In the future, when she is a parent or in the business world, she will have had experience in fielding rejection and bouncing back. It is hard, of course, to watch our kids go through these things.</p>
<p>Twokidsin: "Sure there are a few sororities that are easier to get into but she is afraid to be labeled with the cruel names that she has already heard them being called - just a different way of damaging her ego and self image although I wouldn’t doubt that the girls are just as nice, talented and worthwhile as the those in the “top tier”.</p>
<p>She will have to decide how much she wants to be in a sorority, and how she feels about the girls in those lower tier groups. I went to a school in which the majority of the campus was Greek. A number of great girls in the freshman class were rejected by everywhere they would consider going. The ones on my hall were very upset. It was brutal. Yet to my memory not one of these girls was the worse for it socially in the long run. They became cool independents (some even rushed again and got in someplace that made them happy). </p>
<p>I think if you want to say something to her that might help, it is that every year MANY girls get rejected by sororities where they were not disliked by a single person. When final lists are made, some girls who were invited along for a while into the rush process may not be as well known as others. Some of it is luck. When a nice girl gets rejected, there are always sorority sisters who are disappointed (and sometimes very upset as well).</p>
<p>Doubleplay: “How many of us would feel comfortable walking into that situation at our ages (and we’ve had many, many years to gain wisdom and ■■■■■■■)?”</p>
<p>At our age? We’d walk right past those stuffy girls and go out and have some real fun!</p>
<p>It confuses me why people think that the sororities are “bad” for choosing members for whatever reasons and yet the PNMs are choosing as well for whatever reasons. If a PNM is asked to join a sorority but decides she doesn’t want to be in a “lower-tier” group, how is that any less judgemental?</p>
<p>I am sure that there are great girls in all of the groups regardless of the silly names or reputations. My daughter told me that some of the names really have nothing to do with the reputations of the girls in the group at all, but are more just because it’s easy to rhyme with the greek letter name or are a pun. Basing your decision on what others say is really counterproductive. The sorority my daughter joined may not have been a favorite of her friend, and she may have dropped her friend’s favorite sorority early on–it doesn’t mean one is “better” than the other - just different. </p>
<p>One last point - depending on the school a girl could be at a distinct disadvantage by waiting until sophomore year to rush. Some may have limits to how many upperclassmen they can take and that could lessen their chances of getting a bid.</p>
<p>I chose not to go greek when I was in school and did not feel like I was missing anything. If your daughter does not rush or decides to drop out she will still have amazing opportunities in college so it is a win-win!</p>
<p>"For those with sorority experience - please tell me what would you tell a D (first semester freshman) who may very well not get a bid from one of the sororities that she hopes to be invited to join ? "</p>
<p>Twokidsin- My daughter was cut (rejected) from all three of her top choices on preference night (round 4). She had already spent all afternoon doing her hair and make-up and had been so excited to go to the evenings fancy party night. She thought that the feeling was mutual between her and these sororities…and she was would have been thrilled to join any of her three choices. Ten minutes before the parties were to begin, I got a phone call from her, she was sobbing that when she picked up her card/list for the nights parties…NONE of her three “loves” were on the list. There were two on the list that she was given and she had not preferenced either of them. One of the sororities on her list she got very bad vibes from every time that she visited the house. She could not understand why she was on their list…they had NOTHING in common. The other was a nice sorority, that she had a nice time at but didn’t think that they were really for her. Anyhow, my heart still hurts (from memory) as I type this…I had never felt so helpless with my child. All dressed up and no place to go comes to mind. She wanted initially to just quit and go back to her apartment and forget the parties. I told her that she already was dressed and one of the sororities she DID remember liking so she should just go and see what happens.
End of story, she had a wonderful time with the second sorority and did get a bid to join them the next night (BID day). She is really really really happy in her new sorority. Thank goodness she didn’t give up and go home! </p>
<p>I had a whole speech prepared to comfort her if she didn’t get the bid. It basically was what Spidey and doubleplay were saying. The sororities that didn’t pick her, didn’t know her. Their loss. There are so many other groups on campus that she could join (to be a part of a social group). Including many non PHC sororities/frats. As a first semester freshman, your child also may have other opportunites if she dosen’t get a bid. Some sororities also hold a spring rush. She could also rush again next year (after really getting to know the individual chapters and their members on her campus) . She may find that her choices would be different the second time around.</p>
<p>I hate that there is always this perception of “top tier”. It’s not like each of those houses is filled with ONLY wonderful, beautiful, sweet, sincere, lovely young women, there are probably a few meanies in there too. And, it’s not like every “lower tier” house is filled with undesirable, unlikeable women, these houses have a fair share of wonderful women. Each house has a certain percentage of sweet, wonderful girls that would be great to have as “sisters” during college and beyond, and unfortunately every house has its fair share of girls that may not be as wonderful;).</p>
<p>My advice to you to tell your daughter is to continue through to the end. Go to the pref parties to which she is invited and really look around, not only at the actives, but at the other PNMs to get an idea of who might be in her pledge class. She will probably be pleased to see a large number of lovely young women. </p>
<p>If, after pref night, she absolutely cannot see herself in a pledge class or house with the girls she has been with, then she should drop out. She can say then that she gave rush a chance and it didn’t work out. </p>
<p>I wish her luck.</p>
<p>Seiclan: “The sororities that didn’t pick her, didn’t know her”.</p>
<p>So true. She would not have made it that far with her first three favorites if she wasn’t very well liked at all of them (just not known by everybody). And having made it that far, you can be sure that you are not the only one knows it was their loss. Many of the sorority sisters who were hoping she’d make it, but lost her to the numbers, know it as well.</p>
<p>ag54: “there are probably a few meanies in there too”</p>
<p>Oh yeah. Usually one small group of four or five self-appointed queens who get on the nerves of the other seventy-five or so girls. It is so funny that they think they are so popular, and then when elections come around they finally learn the difference between “popular” and “prominent”.</p>
<p>I guess that I still don’t understand the selection process and I would like to know what to expect so I can be prepared in case it doesn’t work out for her. From what I’ve read - after the third round of parties (when they are invited back to 6, maybe less) the prospective pledges list three choices, assuming that they were asked back to at least three in the prior round. After that what is the process for the Preference night - I thought that only one or more of the three on the girl’s list could invite her to their Preference Party and that if a sorority was not on the girl’s own list they could not invite her to their Preference Party. If that is the way it works I guess I am confused by Seiclan’s D’s story - but thrilled to hear that it worked out for her. Also, can someone end up not being invited to any sororities during that Preference party round and therefore not getting a bid during the Bid Day ? If someone is invited to Preference parties does that mean that they will definitely end up getting a bid from one of the sororities that invited them to their Preference party ? And is it true that only one sorority can offer the girl a bid on Bid Day ? Sorry to be so dumb about this - my son actually did the fraternity thing at the same school my daughter is attending and I didn’t hear a thing about the process - no worries, no tears, just fun and good buddies.</p>
<p>Pref night is usually a round with three parties. Same rules as the other rounds apply - a girl must be invited back and accept the invitation to go to the party. If fewer houses than the maximum invite her (ie only 4 houses invite her on 5 party day) then she must go to all 4 houses to “play fair”.</p>
<p>After pref night, the girl will rank her choices 1, 2, 3. The sorority will then rank all the girls that they saw from 1 to whatever the number the last girl is.
Bid matching is done either by computer program or by the alumnae of the chapters. For example:</p>
<p>“Jane Abbott preffed ABC first”</p>
<p>ABC will then check her list and see where they placed her. </p>
<p>If she’s in their upper third of girls, then she’s put on ABC’s bid list, and the other two chapters she visited will mark her off and move all the girls below her up one spot. </p>
<p>If she’s not in the upper portion of the list, they’re likely to set her card aside and will come back to her. After they’ve gone through all the girls once, they’ll start from the top again and see if Jane has moved up ABC’s list (as other girls choose other houses) and has gotten to the bid worthy portion. EVERYTHING is done to give the girls going through recruitment the greatest advantage. </p>
<p>Surprisingly this is the exact same method used to place new physicians into their residency programs.</p>
<p>Typically schools will institute rules that say if a girl “plays fair” and goes to the maximum number of houses allowed each day (or all the houses that invite her back each day if fewer than the maximum) then on Bid day she will be given a bid. It might end up being her #3 choice, at which point she may have a decision to make, but she will get a bid if she plays fair. </p>
<p>There are other methods by which girls can get bids. Sororities at most schools have elaborate systems of Total and Quota. Total is the maximum size any chapter can be, while quota is the maximum number of girls a chapter can take during a recruitment season. Quota is usually the number of girls still going through the process at the end of the round preceding pref day divided by the number of chapters. </p>
<p>side note - rules on quota and total change, and vary slightly from campus to campus. There are weird scenarios in which a chapter can go over total if getting their quota pushes them over the limit and so on. The idea of these rules is to make it fair for all houses - personally i feel the only way that happens is if total is an absolute limit that cannot be exceeded (which is the way it was at my alma mater), otherwise the big chapters get to keep getting bigger, and the small chapters have a more and more difficult time reaching quota. Regardless, the details aren’t specific, they’re just terms that have to be used.</p>
<p>If a sorority doesn’t meet quota then they may be able to offer “snap bids” to girls that they cut earlier in the week. Again, schools vary in what rules they allow. The other option chapters who didn’t get quota or don’t meet total have, is called Continuous Open Bidding (COB). COB take place outside of designated recruitment periods and is much more informal. Girls will have to call chapters to see if they are doing COB and then may get invited to various parties or events to see how they like the chapter. Usually only a limited number of chapters are actively doing COB at any given time, and certainly the most popular/largest chapters are less likely to be COBing since they don’t need to.</p>
<p>TWOKIDSIN: “I thought that only one or more of the three on the girl’s list could invite her to their Preference Party and that if a sorority was not on the girl’s own list they could not invite her to their Preference Party. If that is the way it works I guess I am confused by Seiclan’s D’s story - but thrilled to hear that it worked out for her. Also, can someone end up not being invited to any sororities during that Preference party round and therefore not getting a bid during the Bid Day ? If someone is invited to Preference parties does that mean that they will definitely end up getting a bid from one of the sororities that invited them to their Preference party ? And is it true that only one sorority can offer the girl a bid on Bid Day ? Sorry to be so dumb about this - my son actually did the fraternity thing at the same school my daughter is attending and I didn’t hear a thing about the process - no worries, no tears, just fun and good buddies.”</p>
<p>I did the rush thing so very long ago – much could have changed over time (and I am not sure if every school is the same). You best bet is to ask someone who knows the process at your daughter’s school. Here’s a thought (just my $.02 – and advice which has been given to ME as well about other things): You seem very interested in all of this, and while I know you are just loving and concerned, take extra care not to let your DD think that this is important to you. I know – you won’t. Just had the thought and decided to share it. </p>
<p>OK – back to my rush experience in the Stone Age. Two sororities could invite you to prefs. If none on your list wanted to invite you, the Greek governing body over rush would broker invites from other sororities which were hoping to recruit members. In this way girls would all get invited somewhere (at my school). I don’t remember if girls received nothing on Bid Day. I think at least one sorority invited them because there were those which had more spaces than rushees, although few girls as I recall chose to join a sorority that they really didn’t want. It is true that only one sorority offered a bid. The rushees ranked the sororities after prefs, and the Greek governing organization matched sorority lists after prefs to rushee lists.</p>
<p>FYI – there were guys hurt in frat rush as well. They probably don’t talk about it as much (being guys). It sounds like your son was one who had a very positive experience.</p>
<p>I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to post here. I only know a little about Greek life, but am learning so much more recently! At D’s school, freshmen have to wait till spring to rush. There is only a small percentage of Greek students (5%). D decided not to rush as a frosh, just didn’t want to. Then at the urging of many buddies in ABC sorority, she finally decided to give rush a try this fall as a sophomore. She decided early on to only list ABC sorority on her pref list. In sorority lingo it’s called “suicide” apparently for a reason. I knew this was risky and warned her. But D felt she’d rather not be Greek at all than belong to any other than ABC. In fact some buddies at ABC told her she should “suicide!” Well, D did not get a bid. She just got this news today! I’m surprised at how much real pain I feel for her. She feels a little misled too; so many ABC girls assured her she’d get a bid from ABC, and were looking forward to having her as a “sister!” I’m thinking maybe someone in ABC really did not want D to join! Don’t know what else to think! Or what to say to her…</p>
<p>It’s not uncommon for students to develop a “rush crush”. It’s a dangerous scenario, one that is only compounded by the fact that your daughter had friends in ABC sorority. </p>
<p>Usually the decisions on bidding are not shared, simply because they’re difficult - especially the way girls conduct recruitment. Depending on the rules a chapter uses, there could have been only a few girls out of the chapter that sunk your daughter’s bid chances (ie blackballing), in other chapter’s, they might have needed a simple majority or 2/3’s to extend a bid. </p>
<p>It is a painful process, and I’m sure that your daughter’s friends had some hurt feelings when she didn’t get a bid.</p>
<p>Thank-you Bigred, I agree. I think I’m taking this harder than she is. I’m not talking to her much about this, don’t want her to think I’m worried… And I guess I’m being silly. I know she’ll be fine; she’s a survivor. It does help to talk on this board…get things off my chest! Thanks again.</p>