<p>I like Berkeley's campus, to be honest. It has a different feel from UCLA, but it's definitely a nice place to be. The Campanille is very nice.</p>
<p>
LOL...who's being condescending? Sounds to me like you're the one who's a little insecure. </p>
<p>I have a degree too, wait make that five. Yup five, sounds like a good #....LOL.</p>
<p>UCLAri: I agree with you about the "normal" undergraduate thing. But I think the "there aren't any research opportunities for undergrads" idea that is often posed is misleading, because a vast majority of undergrads also fail to seek them out. Similar to a professor's office hours. They are available, but often times students fail to use them.</p>
<p>"I'm trying to get you to understand that Nobelists are not necessarily a measure of a school's quality as far as undergrads are concerned. Most people are going to enter undergrad not knowing what they want with their future, and many are going to bounce around majors for a bit. The majority will change majors at least once. What difference does it make if CCNY has had 10 Nobelists if you're majoring in something no Nobel is awarded?"</p>
<p>^If it is Cal's overall academic strength you are worried about, then rest easy. I posted this earlier, but for the sake of those who perhaps innocently over-read it, I'll state it again: Last year Cal had more top ranked programs than any other university in the country, including Harvard, Stanford, Yale, UCLA, MIT, Amherst, USC, and even CCNY. They are not only excellent in engineering but also English, political science, biology, etc. So even if your professor hasn't won a Nobel Prize, he's quite possible directing the best program in the country. Do UCLA and USC have some extraordinary programs as well? Sure they do. But Cal's the jack of all trades in the academia. </p>
<p>To answer your question about CCNY over Dartmouth, re-read my previous one. It remains the same. If I wanted to be an engineer, I would choose Berkeley over, say, Illinois, because it has a stronger program. But if I wanted to major in library science, I'd head for the U. of Illinois. My point was that you really can't go wrong at Cal though, as with a few other schools. Is someone really going to scold you about majoring in art, a "weaker" program at Berkeley if you come out with a degree from there? Most likely not.</p>
<p>infearandfaith: true about UCLA and Westwood (I knew South Central was near SC, didn't mean to put both SC and UCLA in that category). But it's hard to tell what would be more entertaining: seeing Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton in Hollywood once every four years, or listening to Pro-Choice groups, J. Witnesses, and grounded conservatives protest against each others ideals all within the same area every day on the way to class. To each his own indeed. oh yeah, and Cal's campus is prettier in my opinion. All three are beautiful, but Cal's Sather Gate, Bowles Hall, and Campinile are all such recognizable sites. My cousin had a full view of the Golden Gate Bridge from his dorm as a freshman as well. Also, I thought this conversation was about UCLA, USC, and Cal. When did Stanford factor in? I missed that post...</p>
<p>I pointed out Stanford to simply make an observation (eg we're splitting hairs here), thats like me countering you by saying who brought up celebrities (or me pointing out the title of the topic has nothing to do with Cal making all of this off topic)? I try to limit my opinions on Berkeley to what I saw there as a resident, and to what I know of that school from my own acceptance. </p>
<p>Using "review" services is also a humorous way to advocate a school. These same services even issue disclaimers about what a poor way it is to make decisions regarding Universities. My own father, a Cal alumni, regarded many departments as being out of touch with life outside the university. Cal's politics are also quite uninteresting to me as a Brit, not because of what they concern, but rather because I think it takes a lack of dignity to discuss a private matter publicly. Surely that will be out of touch with many American opinions, but to me politics is nothing more than an ongoing debate on who gets what at whose cost.</p>
<p>From my point of view, Berkeley was a lower middle class area that needed a lot of work. Crime was an issue on campus, during my tour they actually told us to leave with a buddy past 9pm. The campus has major housing issues as stated, and quoting a number of sites on campus is like throwing buzzwords out in a political debate, it does nothing but make you look like biased. Plus we sound like horribly arrogant AP students, this whole debate is needless, either school has it merits and suits the needs and desires of those who attend.</p>
<p>oh my Lord. Ok, first off, I wasn't the one who brought Cal into this. If you look a page or two back, someone asked about the prestige of Cal compared to that of UCLA. Most people agreed that in a large majority of the areas, Cal was better. That wasn't a slam against other schools, it was simply many people's opinions. Now, for the four-hundred-millionth time, it depends on the person. You don't like Cal, which is probably why you're arguing with me about it. Honestly, do you even see anything in that school? You seem to be dismissing it like it is some third-tier university filled only with titles, not accomplishments. I may not think UCLA and USC are quite as good, but at least I have given them credit for being great institutions.</p>
<p>Anyway, sorry for that little rant, now to move to another topic: "Review services" may be humorous to you, but how would you be able to tell how good a program is without their help? Not that one should make a decision off of them by any means, but they often prove to be a helpful resource when getting initial ideas about where to attend. Also, they boost a school's image, and that isn't just Cal. In fact, I received a brochure in the mail from UCLA last week, with "#4 Public University" plastered across the front. And it goes without saying that Harvard and Yale display their bragging rights, too. Which gets back around to the whole "it depends on the person" thing. I know people who had absolutely no interest in politics going into Cal, but are now majoring in Government and Political Science. Go figure. Besides, if you are thrown off by a simple aspect of a school, such as it's political views, (this could be any school, not just Berkeley), then perhaps you should re-think what you're looking for in an institution. Did you know that 1/3 of the student body at Cal list themselves as "Republican/conservative"? That would mean slightly more than 10,000 students. Obviously they looked past its 'liberal' stereotype. Also, I have an uncle who attended UCLA, and he said he found Berkeley's campus to be safer. Sure, the area is a little rough, but last time I checked no one had been murdered there. It's as safe as you make it. Most people who were smart enough to get in are smart enough not to walk around in the ghetto at 1 am. </p>
<p>I do respect your opinions though. I don't mean to come off biased, it's just that I've spent considerable time at all three schools, and visited over 25 universities total. I truly believe Berkeley is one of the best, in all areas. But it's what you make of it. If you go in not liking it, it will be harder to appreciate it coming out. Each school has it's pros and cons.</p>
<p>oh no, I don't mean to imply that I don't respect Cal. I just don't like the area, and I could possibly be biased being a former resident. Nor do I think UCLA is crime free, I think what you said up there I largely agree with :). Cal is less safe in my mind, but no nearly as bad as USC, where I have had several friends who have been mugged at gun point only a block or two from campus. It's not so much a particluar school's politics, I just was brought up to keep my politics in general private, so I'm not into soap box lectures.</p>
<p>I, like most people, acknowledge Cal as perhaps the top public school, I just don't see the point in comparing as the difference in imperceptibly slim. It's not that I don't appreciate services like US News, I meant to say that I don't think you should make judgements on a #1 vs a #2 etc. It's silly. </p>
<p>Again, apologies if my manner of speaking seems aggressive. I just have a blunt manner I suppose.</p>
<p>haha, it's all good. I definitely agree with you about the 1 vs 2 thing. Many times there aren't even differences between the top 10 schools. I was simply trying to make a point about individual programs, and how Berkeley seems to have the most programs that are considered very strong. But if you came out with a degree from UCLA or USC, I don't think anyone would question you for not attending a "better" school.</p>
<p>Wow. Creating this thread has made my decision all the more harder. After reading through all of these responses, I suppose UCLA and USC are equal for me now, where before, I was leaning towards USC. I have planned a visit to Los Angeles in the Fall and I will be touring both campuses and doing an interview at USC, so hopefully one will jump out at me. </p>
<p>Thank you so much for everyone's feedback!</p>
<p>infearandfaith,</p>
<p>USC sends out report of every crimes related to students, staff and faculty. For the past 2~3 years, I am sure there weren't more than 10 students robbed at the gun point. So you want me to believe several are your friends? You have the right to bash USC, but please use the facts and reasons. Actually stat-wise, USC and its immediate vicinity are safer than UCLA. </p>
<p>BTW, give me more of your high school vals, and less of you and your sister:)</p>
<p>QW553, I have to disagree with the safety thing. When I walk right off campus and see bars over every window, that worries me. Plus, some guy tried to sell me drugs once, which didn't really make a great first impression. Now, I don't know the exact stats, but I wouldn't promote it as being "safe".</p>
<p>qw553 here's your example, my girlfriends brother was held up at gunpoint on a thursday night during spring. his name is Joel, I hope thats specific enough haha. I'd second vc08 here, USC is hardly known for its safe campus or even area in general. That's not to attack USC, the campus is definitely very nice considering its location. I also know they work hard to make up for that by providing the best security they can. </p>
<p>I'm not trying to imply UCLA is perfect either, so theres no need to be defensive. I think if you were to ask a random group of people who don't attend either school which area they think is safer/nicer, the answer would be pretty clear. Again, I do not dislike either Cal or USC. USC is a little rougher on the outside, but I really think they do an excellent job attracting a very diverse student body. Likewise for Cal, which has it's own feel and yet has a lot of great people. So it's one thing to feel defensive about your school, and another to call someone's statements into question merely to protect your own opinion.</p>
<p>and i have no idea at all what you asked me there at the end ??</p>
<p>oh yeah, and if money is a problem, and since ur out of state, i suggest that u pick usc if u want to make your edu worth it. i have relatives paying for me so i picked ucla (i like the campus feel better)..</p>
<p>US News and World Report 2007
National Universities: Top Schools:
26. Univ. of California—Los Angeles
27. Univ. of Southern California</p>
<p>This is slightly irrelevant but in regards to USC/UCLA rivalry, the archivist on floor 2 of YRL has some interesting pamphlets/booklets on UCLA lore, traditions, the rivalry, etc.</p>