<p>Some say you almost need Ivy League Stats to get into UNC coming from OOS---Is that really the case?</p>
<p>UVA, UMich and even the UC campuses are all much more “accepting” of OOS applicants, and more committed to geographic diversification of the student body.</p>
<p>Ivy League stats is a bit of an exaggeration. The OOS students are generally very good, but it’s not HYP.</p>
<p>The short answer to your question is that the NC government subsidises UNC a lot, and in return they want the education to be for NC people. So they set a cap of 16% or whatever non-NC people.</p>
<p>I actually agree with you that it would be better for UNC-CH to have a more diverse student body.</p>
<p>might be better for the state of North Carolina finances as well to have more full-paying OOS admits, but that’s a whole different argument. Last I looked, UNC didn’t have the endowment totals of a UMich or UTexas. The handwriting is really on the wall in California, where the UC campuses are going to be"forced" to admit a much higher % of OOS, or their programs are going to really sufffer w/the cut in state government aid. Some students are pretty vocal about it taking 5 years to graduate from a UC now because they can’t get the courses they need.</p>
<p>18% is the cap on OOS enrollment at UNC. </p>
<p>And there is no such thing as a “full paying” OOS student since the tuition that is charged these students is supplemented by the tax paying citizens of the State of NC.</p>
<p>ok, semantics aside, call it full-er paying. Multiply the differential of OOS vs. In-state tuition by some increased number of OOS applicants admitted and it would start to add up. But a more important factor is the legacy the university creates. OOS tend to be particularly grateful to be admitted to such a fine university, while many in-state attendees view it as almost a birthright (their parents having been taxpayers for years as you intimate). I grew up and went to the UC system and my parents paid taxes for years. I am in the minority of about 10% of UC graduates who contribute to the school, and i do so annually. OOS students at many public universities, for example Michigan, contribute at a much, much higher rate (40% is the rough statistic I recall). That’s why they have close to a $7 billion endowment, at least in part. OOS students create an annuity stream for the prestigious public universities post graduation, while there exists a mind-set among in-staters that they have already given enough. That’s a broad generalization, but I believe it is accurate. Some of the state governments and public universities get that, some don’t.</p>
<p>I think, beyond the finances, the view here is that the UNC system (including NC State, UNC-W, Appalachian, etc) is in the business of educating North Carolinians. It is a very different philosophy than, say, Virginia’s public universities, where OOS #s are in the 35% range. Having paid taxes and dealt with universities in both states, I much prefer North Carolina’s approach.</p>
<p>As for diversity, most people in North Carolina, well, certainly the major metro areas, are not natives. My daughter’s high school is filled with kids from the northeast, midwest, west coast, other parts of the South, Latin America, Asia, and Europe. Those kids are residents of this state, their parents pay taxes, and most of them will be educated in UNC system schools and ensure valuable diversity.</p>
<p>different philosophies for different states, for sure, and you can reasonably support either side of the argument. Point is, some state governments will soon have to increase taxes or in-state tuition if they want to maintain the same “favored nation status” granted to its residents. About that their is little argument. Just ask anyone attending a UC in-state–and it is going to get more and more difficult.</p>
<p>Admission to ANY school is an inexact science and often very hard to predict.</p>
<p>A disporportionately high percentage of the taxes paid by the residents of NC goes to higher education. For that reason, the state legislature decided that much greater emphasis should be paid to in state students applying to the flagship school. The UNC administration would like to change the 72/18 percentage but is always outvoted. </p>
<p>The administration tried to “sneak” a change a few years back when the found a loophole that allowed them to count OOS students on full scholarships as in state. This meant that OOS students who were Morehead, Robertson, or Carolina Scholars along with recruited athletes were able to be counted as being in state. The public outcry was significant-especially in an election year. In reality, this really only freed up 125-150 spots in the in coming class which made less than a one percent change in the enrollment percentage, but it was a step-maybe just a baby step in the right direction. This loophole was overturned beginning with the current class of freshmen.</p>
<p>This forced maximum OOS enrollment really impacts the selection process and while not everyone is exactly HYPS standards, many are and those who aren’t are still good enough to get into many highly selective schools including some Ivies. OOS admission to UNC can be among the most difficult of any public school outside of some UC schools.</p>
<p>UVA enrolls about 30% OOS and Michigan is a bit higher than that…plus Michigan has a bigger incoming class which also makes admission easier.</p>
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<p>I doubt it. Sources, please.</p>
<p>I guess I was too broad in my statement on VA schools. I did think that was an across the board figure, but it applies primarily to W&M where I went to school (36% OOS). It does look like the rest are around 30%.</p>
<p>Funding models surely must vary by state, but my understanding in VA is that the law is written such that the higher the OOS %, the lower the funding from the state, but that applies to in state students in addition to OOS. In other words, as I understand it, the commonwealth (forgive me - forgot I was talking about stodgy old VA - they hate being called a “state” 
) has formulas in place whereby per pupil funding of in state students goes up if a state, er, commonwealth school has a lower OOS percentage. If true, and I heard this for years when I lived there, that means the higher OOS percentages in VA drive up the costs for in state students. Surely the state legislature must like this, and, I guess it’s a catch 22 as, if Tech, UVA, W&M, JMU, etc lowered their OOS %s, the state may not have the budget to provide further per student subsidies, so they’d cut the funding anyway, and in state tuition would be the same as it is now. Raising OOS caps seems to me to be an addictive, slippery slope.</p>
<p>All I can observe is that the state of NC provides excellent educational opportunities to its tax paying residents at a substantially lower cost than VA (Tuition at UNC, State, Appalachian, UNCW, etc runs about 6K per year; W&M tuition is about 12K, UVA and Tech are about 10K - all figures are for in state) and provides those opportunities in greater proportion to its own residents.</p>
<p>The NC Constitution states that “the benefits of the University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as praticable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense.” This provision is why tuition is lower in NC than in other states. As a resident and taxpayer in NC, I don’t have any problem with the 18% limit on undergraduate OOS students because our universities are intended to benefit NC citizens. The limit does not apply do graduate students and the graduate student body at UNC has a high % of OOS students.</p>
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<p>I don’t find this to be true in my experience. The vast majority of in-state kids were born in North Carolina.</p>
<p>What I think some North Carolinians have failed to realize is that: UNC is now a GLOBAL university, attracting students from every state in the United States and all across the world. I’m sure the university’s forbearers didn’t foresee the degree of global-prominence the university would rise to in the coming 200 years. However, now that it is no longer a regional school, to me, it has an obligation to look beyond its borders and accept more out-of-state/international students. Otherwise, it is limiting itself to reach its full potential.</p>
<p>Don’t forget, the UNC system is composed of 15 other schools, all of which, are mostly regional, and fine institutions. Save the cap for those institutions. </p>
<p>Even though Michigan and Virginia have a higher percentage of out-of-state students, I still believe that nearly every top student in the state still applies to each, and because of the resources and diversification their out-of-state peers bring to the table, they are applying to better and more globally prominent universities.</p>
<p>^ That is quite possibly the most laughable logic I can think of. So NC students should only allow mediocre universities to be “as free as practicable” to in-state students, but the second those universities have national or–gasp–GLOBAL importance, we should be robbed of our right to attend there freely? At what point would you cut off each school from the system? </p>
<p>The whole point is that UNC’s potential is so closely tied to fostering and promoting the success of NC students that removing such a bond would irreparably change and contradict the founding principle of the school. I think the University’s forebearers would be extremely proud to see how wonderful a school UNC has become and delighted that it still serves it original purpose in educating NC students. </p>
<p>To put it more bluntly: We pay for it, so we should get first priority. You want to go to a GLOBAL school? Go to Yale. Or Michigan. Or UVA. UNC ONLY has a responsibility to the citizens of North Carolina, not the world.</p>
<p>^^^“UNC ONLY has a responsibility to the citizens of North Carolina, not the world”</p>
<p>Hmmm…Chancellor Thorp and the university would seem to disagree with that statement…</p>
<p><a href=“http://innovate.unc.edu/index.html[/url]”>http://innovate.unc.edu/index.html</a></p>
<p>[UNC</a> Global](<a href=“Home - UNC Global”>Home - UNC Global)</p>
<p>UNC doesn’t have a global profile, anyway. Or even that much of a national one.</p>
<p>The breakdown of UNC-Chapel Hill’s income sources is as follows (from <a href=“http://www.unc.edu/finance/fd/c/docs/2010_cafr.pdf):%5B/url%5D”>http://www.unc.edu/finance/fd/c/docs/2010_cafr.pdf):</a></p>
<p>Total operating budget:
State government - 22%
Federal grants and contracts - 22%
Grants and gifts - 15%
Sales and services - 15%
Tuition and fees - 10%
Patient services - 10%
Investment income - 4%
State/local grants and contracts - 2%</p>
<p>These figures understate the true importance of state appropriations, since they are typically less restricted than federal funds. But it’s clear that the federal government is contributing significantly to UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>You can doubt all you want blue box, doesn’t bother me. The information on OOS supplemented tuition is easy for you to find if you are truly interested…</p>
<p>^ Hey pal, you made the claim, you back it up.</p>