<p>Big Pudding, thanks for finding that post,which dealt with the letter to my daughter. I had forgotten all about it.</p>
<p>Thanks overwhelmedma. I looked on the school website and there does not seem to be that kind of general support, but there are some resources that I will have her look into. The first year she will be in mostly studio art classes, with English her only non art choice, and there is good support for writing courses with a special peer tutoring program, so I think I will encourage her to look into that early.</p>
<p>A former student came to see me recently. I asked how the first year went. He said that he loved college. College was so much fun. That’s what he told all the seniors. Then, someone asked about classes. The fun ended right there – he had a miserable first semester. The second was a little better, but not great. I’m glad that he’s having fun. Now, he needs to learn to balance that fun with studying and doing all the work. It was a good lesson for those seniors, and I hope they listened.</p>
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<p>In the last 4 years I have had conversations with numerous parents about their child’s college experience. The vast majority of the parents whose child did not meet the parents’ expectations mention emotional meltdowns (several due to dating issues), stress/depression, getting “sick” and partying too much as contributing factors.</p>
<p>With rare exception these are the first issues the parent reports. Then, some of the parents relate a particular course as being very difficult or having been taught by a “poor” teacher. Of those reports, less than half the parents are aware of their child actually using direct contact with the professor as a means to get help. Seems that the predominate response is to complain about the course or teacher after the fact.</p>
<p>Several posters on this tread have related their experiences as college level teachers. Yet, those students who come and meet with the teacher to discuss the problems they are having with the subject matter are at least trying to deal with the issue. I wonder if the vast majority of struggling students just get overwhelmed and “sink.” The dropout and retrention rates would seem to reflect this.</p>
<p>I would like to endorse that for some kids, they have finally met their match and when they have to actually work hard, they do not know how; when they have to learn to not be the tops in their class, they do not know how to define themselves.</p>
<p>But, another explanation for this which really has not been mentioned is burnout. Honestly, couldn’t it be that some of these kids have just completely worn themselves out in their ridiculous high school lives.</p>
<p>Sex, drugs, and rock n roll.</p>
<p>My D1 just started tutoring a 9th grader for her finals. This child’s parents are well to do and she is in one of the best private schools around where we live. My D1 said this child does not take notes in class, the parents organize her folders for each class. When D1 looked at some of her tests, the child just didn’t bother to answer some questions (if there is part I and II, she would just answer part I). D1 said this child is very smart, but just doesn’t care. The parents expect D1 to organize their kid’s study material and study with the kid right up to the exam. D1 is working with the kid on one subject, they have a tutor for every subject for this kid. </p>
<p>The parents is doing all they could to make sure their kid would end up with at least B+ or better, and it’s taking up a lot of their resource to do it. This kid is accustom to have assistant provided to her. I am sure with all the tutoring, she probably will end up at a fairly decent college someday. The question is, would she be able to seek help in college when her parents are not hovering.</p>
<p>My children feel lucky they are able to attend private school. It would never cross their mind to not do their best at school. We’ve never have to get tutors for them. I understand we are here to provide support to our children to make sure they excel in school. IMO, these parents are doing a disservice to their child.</p>
<p>Yes, the over-tutoring and over-involvement of parents really can lead to a kid going to a school where THEY cannot do well themselves, without constant supervsion…which is really just not available. Although parents can get students private tutors in college. It is an option. What always surprises me, around here, though, is when parents push to have thier kids put in upper level classes and APs the kids don’t place into with tests or performance minimums…all in the hopes of them getting into a college in the future. When did this start? I’ve been really shocked by that.</p>
<p>poetgrl: interesting you should bring the AP issue up…what about the other side of that coin?..HS’s that permit students to “walk in” to numersous AP courses as they wish? Top colleges accept them with oodles of inflated AP grades while the students may or may not be able to handle the work…just because they achieved A’s and B’s in their HS’s AP courses may mean nothing if those courses are not rigorous enough…</p>
<p>Opinions on this aspect from other parents?</p>
<p>The time management began in pre-K (of course it was not our idea). The school used some kind of plan-do-review methods for the kids in all grades, so my 4 yo was drawing in her “planning book”. This lasted throught 8th grade, but it was ingrained, so the plan-do-review followed her to high school. She always had a planner, and she took one with her to college. Yet, she still felt she needed to manage her time better.</p>
<p>Probably from middle school, on we never interevened. If there was a problem, we expected the kid to at least try to address it. You have to learn sometime. I got involved only 1 time, when the frustration level hit a never before seen level. In high school, we talked to teachers during parent-teacher nights, but my philosophy was the kid had to do her problem solving. The benefits of visiting the teachers were worth the time. Of course Taking her to school an hour early made my day <sure-lol>.</sure-lol></p>
<p>As for visiting instructors. When we visited Michigan State, aside from the touting be a Land Grant University, they stressed visiting hours for instructors. now I may have walked away still being unclear on the benefit of Land Grant, but I clearly got it on visiting the instructor.</p>
<p>So even though she didin’t attend MSU, she took that philosophy with her. Even visit the instructor, if you don’t have a problem. Her 1st semester as a freshman was a bit stressful, but she visited when she had questions. 2nd semester, the planets aligned and she had funky instructors in all classes. No clue on progress as no assignment or test grades were returned. Solution? Go visit the instructor. </p>
<p>Finally, I passed on a gem my mom passed on to me. If the instructor can put a name to the face, it may make a difference between a B+ and an A-. I don’t know if it’s true, but she finished the 2nd semester of her freshman year just fine!!</p>
<p>silvermoon-- also, if the teacher knows the student and the student has taken the opportunity to get to know the teacher, TA or Prof, when issues arise 1. they feel like they CAN talk to the prof. 2. The Prof will make space because they know the kid. The times when kids get stuck aren’t always the most convenient and don’t always fall into the office hours schedule. A student who has built a relationship is much more likely to be able to get help when they really need it, which is usually at the 11th hour.</p>
<p>Rodney-- I don’t think every kid in a school belongs in AP classes. AP classes are what schools are ranked on so they have an incentive to get the kids in those classes for the purpose of ranking. Unfortunately, this is really not always in the best interest of the student. For my kids, THEY have to convince me to allow them to take an AP, as in, “Why do you want to do this in high school? What will YOU get out of it? Are you willing to put in the time? Do you understand what that time/cost is?” Is it worth it, in other words. Even my brainiac child, forced into this evaluation, chose to not do a couple of classes where she would be working with her weaknesses at the cost of other things she wanted to do more.</p>
<p>I don’t believe in “limiting” students in AP classes. If kids want to challenge themselves, then let them. If they can’t hack the class then how on earth would they get “inflated grades?” Are you assuming that teachers give everone who takes an AP class an A or a B? Doesn’t happen at my childrens public school. Plenty of Cs and probably some Ds in AP classes. This is not a response directly to Rodney, but what the heck, why do people get indignant about kids reaching for a tougher college or reaching for a tougher class? What kind of kids are we raising?</p>
<p>Husband and I discussed this yesterday, how disappointing our junior son’s grades are this year, and have been over high school. Husband felt he had failed son by not making son read more, having bought every video game and system he wanted. We realize that it’s quite possible he may come home after one semester, either wanting to come home due to homesickness, or worst case scenario, flunking out, or at least, losing his scholarship.</p>
<p>We discusssed that instead of letting him come home and go to the local college, or even the state flagship, 90 minutes away, we will insist he go to one of the neighboring state’s public universities, where he’ll still get a decent education, though not that fancy school diploma, but he will still have to live on his own. </p>
<p>As many of my friends, who are fellow helicopter parents say, if we let our son stay local for school, he’ll never learn to pick his underwear off the floor.</p>
<p>momofthree-- I usually agree with you! I even agree with you here. I think as long as the kid understands what they are doing, then an AP or two or three can be an excellent idea. It’s really important, though, for them to understand what it is they are gettin into and to make that decision with their eyes wide open. That’s just my opinion.</p>
<p>Momofthree: You may have misunderstood; my point was that there is no consistency; some HS’s (like yours and ours) have rigor in their AP’s, requirements, etc…therefore, many students are shut out of taking the courses and those who are permitted are really the superstars…how do colleges distinguish these students from those who are permitted to take whatever they want? I’m not saying which is correct…just espousing a theory as to why some students do not succeed in college while they were “high achieving” in HS…I still don’t know which is better…</p>
<p>Example for clarification: My daughter took 6 AP courses in HS; all had admissions requirements; achieved A’s and B’s…now in college, has higher grades than in HS; all A’s and A-'s…
Has a friend from a neighboring town; this girl was allowed to take as many AP’s as she wanted; ended up with 12 or something like that; achieved almost all A’s…in SAME college as my daughter and struggling with courseload and rigor…NOT a partying issue…</p>
<p>poetgrl and Rodney - OK, I understand what each of you were saying. To poetgrl, in our school if the kids want to take an AP class and they didn’t have an “A” in the prerequisite for an auto-admit they have to go talk to the teacher. I have no knowledge if the teachers ever say “no” as I can’t imagine kids would go talk to the teacher unless they really wanted to take the class. Rodney, as each of my kids heads off, I’m becoming convinced the system works pretty well. There always cases that leave one scratching their head why a particular student wasn’t admitted, but I think the colleges can wade through the profile and data and discern the schools with 4.0 students with a 20 ACT or 500 SATs from a 3.4 student with 30 ACTs or 700 SATs. I don’t believe that high schools do a service to their students by not allowing them into classes the students want to take if the students reason for taking them is genuine but I have no experience with magnet type schools. I also have decided not to get my hair in a knot about the senior scholars who took no rigorous courses in our high school but by viture of their GPA end up at the top of the heap. Those kids have their moment in the sun and for the most part aren’t going to rigorous colleges. There are always going to be outliers in life. The interesting thing is the kids kinda know where they are in the pecking order of intellectual life.</p>
<p>My DD (finishing junior year of hs) has taken a very challenging course load and has completed 4 APs as well as the first year of college calculus. She had her first B+ ever in her school career in AP Chem last semester. Her public hs is a top one in our state and the AP grades are very hard earned here. She is a kid who has been organized and has known how to study all of her life. DH and I did nothing to teach these skills this kid has just always been able to organize herself and get the work done.</p>
<p>She is heavily involved in musical theatre and is currently cast in two musicals. This means that she spends a minimum of 20 hours per week in rehearsals or voice lessons. She uses all of her time well and still is able to have a social life also. </p>
<p>My younger DD (finishing freshman year in hs) is more of a “fly be the seat of her pants” kid! She has done well her first year of hs and will have a 4.0, but she is not nearly as organized as her sister. My DH and I will help her with questions on homework, but we have been adament that she needs to keep herself organized and on track with her projects and that we are not responsible for that. Hopefully by the time she finishes hs she will be more organized and be ready to start college.</p>
<p>Tsdad has it right, LOL. I think a major reason that kids have problems at college is because they are dealing with many thing in addition to academic demands. Drugs, sex and r n r are big time contenders, but so are mood disorders, maturity issues, etc. There are a lot of things going on at that age and in a new setting and new issues thrown in there…well, it can be tough.</p>
<p>And, unless the parent is very careful, at the same time the young adult is experiencing these changes she or he is getting pressure from the absentee parent(s) to communicate, disclose, discuss, etc. OR the parent is continuing to “take care of” everything from a far.</p>