Will the school help a student to not become a leader, if she doesn’t want to become a leader?
That was an interesting question that my wife didn’t dare asking during our visit to Thacher, after listening to the Director of Admissions and Headmaster’s inspiring and strong speeches with a hint of raising future leaders. She said she was a bit intimidated by the speeches and didn’t want to be unimpressed by asking the wrong question and considered to be not a parent of a right Thacher material. She felt that Thacher’s admissions atmosphere was too masculine compare to Cate’s feminine approaches. What do you think?
On an unrelated note, there were 9 Asian girls including mine in the day’s applicant group of 14. All but mine seemed very mature, bright, assertive, affluent, friendly and smiling. I heard several of them speaking perfect English with no accent even though they flew from China. And we truly realized the uphill battle we are facing because the student body clearly wasn’t over-represented by Asian girls.
@twinsmama, that may be right, if they are a year older than average 8th graders in the U.S. as I heard that is often the case, since mine is a few months younger than the most. But that’s an even more reason that daughter will face a stiff competition since they are applying for the same 9th grade spots. Well, at the end, all she needs is just one acceptance at one school.
I’m fascinated by your binary description of two (amazing) schools. Is she applying to more schools than just those with the most competitive stats? There are so many amazing boarding schools that keep a climate that is less competitive while still offering a stellar high school education. If one feels intimidated to be themselves… I would be wary. Be careful what you wish for… this is what we see on these boards over and over again. So if you are pursuing schools that will acknowledge who your child is, and what they need to thrive rather than filling their slots with polished gems, you are bound for a better outcome. I guess what I’m saying is be transparent, trust that your instincts( questions/comments) are how you advocate.
@jdewey, thanks for the advise. The two schools are close to each other, so we visited both of them in one trip. I am amazed too for my “wife’s” binary feeling of the schools. She can be, at times, … illogical. We are applying to other schools too.
We have a eccentric philosophy and background even among homeschoolers. I have been embarrassingly transparent in parent interviews and essays that I am afraid that half of the school we apply to would immediately reject us for unfit, but hopefully the other half will consider them interesting and adding to their diversity.
It’s natural to compare & contrast those two - Cate/Thacher - because they are close together geographically so many people see them on the same trip. But I think that you have to try to take some of the Admissions “marketing” with a grain of salt if at all possible; and this goes for every school. Revisits will give you a more accurate picture (although still curated!) of what life is really like at a school - it’s so hard to tell from a tour.
Also, don’t pay ANY attention to the other people in the waiting room! You don’t know their story, so don’t be intimidated and certainly don’t try to read anything into it. Our visit to one school (which shall go unnamed!) had a waiting room filled with kids straight out of a Vineyard Vines ad - we almost thought it was a prank! This was NOT a preppy school by any measure, we just happened to be there on an odd day.
And lastly, I totally agree with @jdewey in terms of being honest and transparent. Put your family’s & your daughter’s authentic self out there. You have a much better chance of finding a good fit that way!
In detail, Thacher’s visit was consisted of a long group lecture by the Head of Admissions for half of the day’s visitors, attending the assembly, and then followed by a lecture by the Head of School for the entire day’s visitors, then a group tour and interviews. Both the heads were confident and masculine in spirit. My wife concluded that it must be the horses as they need to have that qualities to control the horses. We learned that all Thacher freshmen were assigned to a own horse to care and ride everyday. They seem to spend a lot less time on visual arts on average, but then it seemed was focused on modern pop/idea arts rather than traditional skills, which makes sense as they can probably gain the most out of less focus on visual arts that way. We were very very impressed on the brilliant teaching approach and quality of student art works.
Whereas there was no group lecture or tour at Cate. We were invited to talk to two student volunteers about details of their academics and dorm life, followed by individual tours that included class visits for the student, attending assembly, then the interviews. Their visual art works by students were more traditional style, and we were also very very impressed, this time by high level of skills and big scale of student art works. There was a huge difference in quality from another school that we visited before.
That’s what I thought. So it was awkward to be asked if we were driving back to home the same day after Cate’s interview. We had to stay at the town for another day for Thacher interview because it was the first school day after the break and both the schools only offer morning visits.
Surprisingly, I saw only one family from Cate at Thacher the next day.
I agree with @GMC2918 comments. We too visited both schools in the fall. We liked both schools a lot, but DS really, really liked Cate and so we are only applying to Cate out West. When we visited, there was a lot of cross-pollination between the Thacher and Cate visits. I think we saw at least 7 families doing the same thing we were doing. (I recall one family responding to chit chat from Thacher’s AO, that they would see Cate tomorrow. I think the schools are aware that families look at both (especially, if you are not local), as their interview days do not overlap. I don’t think that is a coincidence.) Ultimately, I think as everyone has said, your instincts and insights will lead you in the right direction. Personally from the parent perspective, I thought Thacher did a fantastic job of setting forth their beliefs and how they effectuate them. Cate less so. Conversely, I liked how at Cate we met many, many more students and could get a real sense of the types of kids that were there. DS meanwhile got in the car after Thacher and said “good school, not sure it’s for me.” Within 10 minutes at Cate, he turned me and said “I can see myself here!” Funny thing is, by the look on his face, I already knew that We’ll see what happens on March 10!
I also agree about being wary of the waiting room. You really don’t know anyone’s story and certainly we don’t know what the admissions officers are looking for in the particular class…Good luck in the process…
While colleges are interested in getting the students THEY want (and leaving whether it’s the right fit up to the student), prep schools are much more interested in being the right place for your child. It’s easier on everyone that way. @jdewey is right on target – being transparent is best. While we didn’t look at these two schools, I recall my DS leaving one very impressive school (that I really liked!) saying “everything about this place is about competing”. That just wasn’t him – one of the things that he really wanted was community. He didn’t get into the (competitive) school known for turning out “captains of industry” but ended up thriving at a school that produces “citizens of the world”. You need to find a place that works for who are you today as well as who you hope to be in 4 years. If one of those is off, keep looking. Good luck.
When we looked at Northfield Mount Hermon, I loved the slogan on their website at the time, “NMH has no preconceived notions of who you ought to be, but does have great expectations of what you can do.”
Many Cate and Thacher applicants see both schools back to back. Based on our experience and that of many CC parents I’ve spoken to over the years, most (75%) of applicants almost immediately and instinctively gravitate to one or the other school. Even so, Cate’s founder was a faculty member at Thacher and friend of Sherman Thacher’s, and so there are also similarities between the schools noticeable even today. Couldn’t agree more with @GMC2918 and @jdewey on the importance of revisits, paying no mind to who else is in the waiting room and being yourself. If you get admitted to either School, you will have a remarkable experience.
@jwalche As to the masculine/feminine orientation, perhaps it’s the tactile/horses/mountains/hiking blend that might give that impression. However, if you can get your hands on one of the elusive ISGP Reports that measure/score gender treatment, you will discover student perceptions of gender, health, and wellness-related issues at Thacher are tops. A cohort of 21 schools take part; among them: Cate, Deerfield, St. Paul’s, Choate, Hotchkiss etc. In particular, support of young women is top notch. ISGP does not want its reports to be admissions tools but internal working documents for the participating schools to improve themselves. Yet, as parents, particularly of young women, the data is a veritable gold mine of useful information.
Lastly, I like to look at yield and attrition rates as community “health” markers, as I’ve noted in past posts. I think they help tell would-be parents and kids how well the admission’s team does matching students to School. @jwalche - the paradox of your wife feeling intimidated about asking a question is that her honesty and authenticity would no doubt have been more attractive than the calculating, out-to-impress mentality of many parents at those sorts of gatherings.
Oh I believe that both the schools are great and daughter will have amazing experience at either school. Another thing I noticed at Thacher is that, freshman girl’s dome room has a door to outside of the building, rather than the inside of building that leads a hallway that is guarded by resident faculty members. It seems still safe since the school is deep in the mountain, and probably necessary to take care of a horse that each freshman is assigned to care. Yet the trust and freedom seemed amazing.
BTY, description of the calculating, out-to-impress mentality never occurred to me. Honestly the practice always impresses me!
We visited both schools and loved both. When M10 came, DS chose Thacher mainly due to the fact that there was a Horse Program and he has been riding horses for 5+ years by then. He is thriving at Thacher but who knows? He would have been enjoying equally, if not more, had he chosen Cate. That we never know because we cannot turn the clock backward. Revisits can help but it could also be limited. After all, at one point you need to rely on gut feeling (or luck). If the two schools are equally attractive, whichever your child likes more should be the one. Then you won’t regret.
We did not necessarily find Cate was toward more feminine side while Thacher being more masculine. One thing we have noticed is the admissions offices could give you such an impression. Thacher’s office would look more conservative (and less light) while Cate’s office looks very open, casual and bright with full of sinshine. Many students tour guides come in the office and meet/chat with applicants, giving casual answers. It may make visitors feel Cate is more open, free and maybe feminine(?). At Thacher there are more ‘formal’ speeches instead of face-to-face conversations with current students.
I don’t know much about Cate because we chose Thacher. But Thacher turned out to be a great school with many freedom and flexibility about academics. An honor code is being instilled in every aspect of their lives in every possible way. They don’t teach you an honor code because it is already built inside your value system. No wonder the school has been the cleanest boarding school in US in terms of alcohol/drug usage. When you leave your 100 dollar bill in the football field, it would stay forever there and someone emails you they found it.
I am not trying to promote Thacher over Cate. I am just saying we are very satisfied with the decision and my DS is 100% happy, not wanting to come home for breaks. LoL.
I want to stress that Cate is a fantastic school and we would not have enjoyed less there. I got to know one student from Cate here on CC and got great help/advice from him when applying. I think that was good enough to explain how nice people there were! And same goes for Thacher. I received unmatched advice from @ThacherParent a few years ago, which was one of the reasons why we chose Thacher.
Lastly, the issue with leadership… I don’t think lack of leadership desire can be a problem. There are many different people with different orientation toward the leadership position. And not every people becomes a leader. The school knows that. When your child has something that will contribute to the school community, that is what they will look for to build a class. And who knows? The boarding school education may make your child change her mind and want to be a leader! All the best!
We’ll see what happens on March 10!