Hi–I’m a longtime lurker, but new poster to CC. I really am impressed with all the great knowledge that is shared here. I have a question about the impact of AP scores. I know that they don’t figure officially into the decision and are generally used only for placement or academic credit purposes, but I would be curious to know if there may be an indirect effect. My D 17’s UW GPA is 3.43 (W 3.8), but she got a 4 on the one AP class she took last year as a sophmore (Euro History) and will be taking two more AP tests this year (APUSH and Eng Lang & Comp). If she scores a 4 or 5 on these tests, even though she’s getting B’s/B+'s in these classes, will that reflect favorably on her applications? Or is this something, that because it would be at best an indirect effect, is impossible to know or would vary widely depending on the school?
AP test scores are a third or lower tier evaluation criteria at best. It’s likely that most of her target schools will solely be based on the hard numbers: GPA and ACT/SAT.
That being said, a good score on APs often means college credit – although colleges vary on what credits they grant for which tests and which scores. Regardless, it’s a good investment!
I think a good AP score can validate a good grade in the class. A poor AP score, combined with a good grade in the class, might indicate that the high school AP class didn’t have the necessary rigor. A good AP score, combined with a poor grade in the class, doesn’t show anything for sure. It could mean that the course was super rigorous, more so than the AP curriculum. Or it could just as likely mean the student, while a good test taker who mastered the material that was actually tested, was a behavior problem, didn’t do homework, has poor executive function skills, etc.
I would not expect AP scores to count for much in the admissions process. But as mentioned above, a good AP score can result in college credit or placement, which can be a very good thing.
Disagree with T26. If you to go the CDS of any college you will see Rigor as a “most important” selection critera. Colleges want to see you take on rigorous classes and do well, more than they want a straight a transcript with all softball classes.
Its also pretty common to see GPA slip when students take these classes on Jr/Sr year. It will likely slip a bit when she gets to college too. GL.
My GC said other than used for college credit, your ap scores help detect grade inflation at different schools. A student who has an A in one school may not necessarily know the material better than a student who has a B at another school. Getting an A in a class but getting a 1 might hurt you, while getting a B in a class but a 5 on the test might help. All in all, it gives college admission officers a perspective since the test in standardized, but dont count on the AP score on making a huge impact
^ I think that is what we are all told but I do not think it is always true. In an ideal world everyone should get an A in the class and a 5 on the test. However, if I had to pick between an A and a 1 or a B and a 4, I would pick the first one. Certainly if the choice was between an A/3 or B/4 or 5. Especially if the kid can score well on a couple of SAT 2s instead. The only exception is if you attend a nationally known high school such as Thomas Jefferson, where every college knows the school is known for its students and teachers. In an average good suburban school that only the regional representative knows, I think the A is better.
http://admission.stanford.edu/basics/selection/prepare.html
Sometimes it is not grade inflation but simply a bad teacher who gave difficult tests on the wrong material or did not grade the essays on the same rubric as the AP does. Some kids are not great at a year’s worth of material but would do better on the quarter system. Some kids panic or have that one essay question in an era they did not study well or understand. If it had been a question on another era they would have done well. On a college test, the person making the test would be the professor who taught you, in this case, you have a 3/4 syllabus that is given to 40,000 teachers in different parts of the country and the results are going to be mixed regardless of the student’s ability. At the end of the day colleges brag about their entering classes GPAs. They do not brag that every student admitted got a 4 or 5.
Having said that, for the OP, I think it does indicate that your kid is better than her grades. Assuming there is no obvious reason why your kid gets Bs (does not pay attention, does not do homework), if she scores well, especially 5s, I would ask for an explanation from the school. Is there something in how these teachers are grading that is disadvantaging the students? Is there something that can be done? Obviously inquiries would have to be made in a way that it does not come back to bite her. Maybe wait until you see her grades and scores. You know best or can find out how to navigate the politics of your school, this is not something an outsider can or should advise. Is it happening to her friends as well?
Do most other students who aspire to better colleges have Bs? How has the school done with admissions to top tier colleges? What does Naviance show about where students who are similar to your daughter get accepted? Where does your D fall in percentiles of her class? Obviously only something familiar with your school can answer.
A good AP score can show grade deflation and that you had a really strict AP teacher. If someone gets a 5 on the AP exam but got a C in the class, it could show that your teacher has deflation. I know one of my AP teachers actually used a bell curve for everyone. Literally everyone has a grade between a D-B.
It does seem like a good investment for a chance at college credit. But just clarifying: colleges only see the AP scores if a student submits them? And are there colleges that require students to submit their scores?
My high school lists our AP scores and PSAT scores on our transcript :(. So getting a low score will still show up and colleges will see it.
Still, even if you don’t submit your scores but take AP courses, colleges will wonder why you chose not to take it or assume you got a bad score.
I heard colleges don’t care about ap scores. One of my friends didn’t send his scores in (since he didn’t get a 5 on either) and he still got into Princeton and Dartmouth
From what I’ve heard from my college visits, many schools only look at AP scores after evaluating other “more important” criteria (GPA, test scores, etc) and they don’t carry much weight in admissions. I know someone who has almost straight As but failed basically every AP he took (I think he had like four 1s… even in some of the easier APs) and still got into quite a few top schools. However, a couple Bs, especially in APs probably will not make or break a decision unless a student is applying to top tier schools. While I don’t know how much weight they necessarily carry, they are definitely a worthwhile investment especially if your daughter can score 4s or above on them because she’ll earn college credit at most schools.
That is truly odd. Are you sure? Is it private or public? Has anyone ever questioned the wisdom of this poilcy which I have never heard of another school in the US doing. How does your school do in college admissions. Is it a special magnate school
@cat136 I have seen similar posts over the years about students scoring 1s going on to great schools if they have straight As.
From an admissions standpoint, I understand that a college would choose an A student with a 1 over a B student with a 4. No one judges a college’s prestige based on the average AP score of their admits, but everyone cares about the average GPA. But in the long run, who knows more about the subject at hand? The admitted student with the A or the rejected student with the B and 4 or 5? The answer is obvious. Grade inflation/deflation is very real. While I believe that scores should count more, it’s clear that some schools do only care about the grades they can brag about their incoming class having.
My daughters’ scores were listed on the transcript IF they reported them. There were all kinds of things o the transcript that I wasn’t aware of, including my children’s vaccination records.
The schools would only have the AP scores from junior year and before (if the school allows sophs to take AP). Seniors don’t have scores by application time.
@mitchklong I never said anything about course rigor. I agree with you that great grades and a rigorous transcript are the most important keys – esp for competitive colleges. However, the OP asked about AP scores. Plus given the OPs daughter’s GPA, I doubt she’ll tapping at super competitive schools
Agree that colleges will look first at GPA/standardized test scores (if not test optional and scores are reported). If AP scores are strong and help the applicant- report them. But I agree, they will not mitigate a weaker GPA, unfortunately.
Thanks, all! You pretty much confirmed what I thought–at any rate, if she does do well, we will definitely report them–every little bit will count. As some of you surmised, we are not targeting top-tier schools, --we’ve got some of the CTCL as matches/reaches, and my D’s first choice right now is the state public flagship (UMass), but that’s pretty iffy at this point–was just hoping for any little boost we could get.
It is not uncommon for a HS to list standardized test scores, including AP’s, on the transcript.
^ Yes but PSATs? The holy grail of PRACTICE tests unless NMF (in which case you want them listed). One of my kids who evenutally ended up at a TT school got about an 1100 (CR + M) on PSATs. Final scores were in the 99% but I shudder to think what would have happened if those PSATs had been on the transcript.
If I knew my kids PSATs would be reported on their transcript I would either have them op out or they would have to really study. Instead my kids walked into PSATs cold to get a basic idea of how much they would need to study.
OP, are the teachers very hard graders? I really do wonder when kids do great on APs and mediocre in the class.
I think her English teacher is a hard grader. My D has never had issues with English before, but he’s basically communicated to her that she can’t write, so she gets lower grades than expected on essays and papers. She just got her first ACT scores back and her composite score was pretty disappointing (25C: 26E, 23M, 22S), but she did get a 26 on the essay, which put her in the 93rd percentile (and there seem to be a lot of posters on CC who were dismayed by how low their essay scores were (lower than D’s) even though their composites were high, so I don’t think she’s that much of a trainwreck with her writing. The AP history teachers she’s had so far have been pretty demanding and seem to have had college-level expectations of the students–she’s actually been pretty happy with the B+'s she’s been getting (Euro, US). They do seem to do a lot of prep for the AP exam (I know that for APUSH, which is not known to be one of the harder AP tests, that the teacher has been holding sessions after school to practice FRQs and such–my D has been going several times a week for the past two weeks (took the test this morning).