^true, state schools often have the most resources for those majors!
So true - we have been moving steadily away from affordable college for the past 30 years.
@wwpdf2 you have lived in the wealthy suburbs of NJ for too long. I get it. I grew up there and went to an Ivy. And it is clear that even though I moved away 30 years ago it really has not changed. The world is a bigger place than the NJ 'burbs and the other well off 'burbs of the East and West coast States. Stop drinking the cool aid of âbrand nameâ school elitism. It is a false god. In many parts of the country, top students proudly go to their or other flagship State universities because they receive an excellent education at a somewhat affordable price. The anti-public university is a localized phenomenon. Most of the NMFs from my sâs HS have chosen public universities.
I am in the same economic boat you are in-my s qualifies for no financial aid anywhere. But we really can pay for his schooling with no loans - though the most expensive schools would be painfully tight for us. But guess what? It does not matter. Our kids are so incredibly lucky.
So stop obsessing over the false god and focus on what matters for your child. How much are you willing/able to contribute? You do not need to justify your decision. I know many families with plenty of money that will only contribute up to the cost of sending their kid to the in state public flagship university.
Debt or no debt? Most people do not have a choice. Our kids do. That is the gift we have been able to provide to them. Once you have a budget, what does your d want to study and what schools are a good fit? Is grad school possibly needed in the future? If so then keep undergrad costs low and focus on schools where she can achieve a high gpa to get into grad school.
Stop worrying about the benefits offered to smart kids who have little to absolutely nothing. Not your concern. But you might consider volunteering at a soup kitchen this thanksgiving or xmas or volunteering for a habitat for humanity build and get a much needed reality check.
I am impressed with this website. There are many good replies. I donât particular care for personal insults but I did expect them.
I am not trying to bash students from poor families - thatâs not the intent at all. I think that we should provide for the less fortunate for sure.
@mom2collegekids - itâs not just âthat I worked so hardâ - thatâs true we did. Its that I made a series of very good (conservative) decisions throughout my life - we made decisions with the intent that if something went wrong we werenât going to rely on someone else (including public assistance) to bail us out. BUT most importantly I had CARING PARENTS who made a series of good decisions. They were mature adults - I too came from a lower middle class (at most) family so while I never went hungry, I definitely didnât have fashionable clothes, ever went to a restaurant or a on vacation in which we didnât stay at a family members home. I donât think attacking me personally is very constructive. Here lies the problem - CARING PARENTS - no government program can provide this.
You might also want to consider that the path from a Bio degree to CEO is likely to involve further education unless your daughter is planning to inherit or start her own business. A BS in Bio typically leads to jobs such as lab tech, pharma sales, or teaching (although the last option still involves further education to get certified). If she takes out loans to fund the prestige option will she still be paying them off if she decides to go for an MBA down the road?
Being poor at a rich kid school sucks. There are the classes you canât take because a quick comparison of the stacks at the library and the syllabus shows that you canât afford the books. There are the bad teeth which tag you as different even before people meet you. But most of all, there are the life experiences all those rich kids have that you donât. Things like ordering food in a restaurant. Vacations. Travel. Home computers. Parents who sometimes had money to help you pursue your passions.
Our kids have all the advantages. Placing tuition ceilings on them causes me no guilt whatsoever. And OP, let it go. There absolutely will be kids in her circle of high achieving friends who will choose schools with affordability in mind. Just let her know she has to be one of them.
I think the path to CEO also requires the ability to make the most of opportunities, say that top research flagship university within an hour or two drive with costs under $26K. Will this same attitude keep her from accepting say a internship or training program that would involve her being in a blue color setting?
I think the reason you are getting some negative comments is that you presume there would be a lot of sympathy for your quest to get your smart but not stellar daughter an expensive private school education for $26K a year, which is only 10% of your income, because you think everyone else is going free or something.
Trust me, there are a lot people who would love to not have funded their 529s or love to not be mailing out that $60K check, but you and your daughter are just not that special.
Most people who are poor go to poor quality community or for-profit colleges, take loans, and may never graduate because they need to work to support themselves, they went to outright horrible high schools, and they donât have the family support you talk of. Is any of that their fault?
Some make it to their state flagship, which requires a lot of effort pre- college and in college and this is for them a life changing opportunity. Occasionally an exceptional student and person gets plucked out of all this, gets support, and can go to a top tier university for nearly free (but even these opportunities are often turned down since many poor kids help support their family or provide family support to sick relatives or younger children).
Your daughter since she was raised in a stable well to do family in a good school district can likely skate into her state flagship which is easily afforded by you, graduate with no debt ⊠or she can find good merit opportunities elsewhere ⊠or she could buck up and take loans like everyone else in the same situation.
I guess you could also have lived a more humble life and put away $200K for college, it is possible.
Thatâs why people are upset at you âŠ
As has been requested by others, OP, please give us more info about your D. What are her test scores? What are her ECs? People here can suggest specific universities that would be a good place to look for merit aid for your daughter, but only if you give more information.
ok let me first say i totally sympathize, but first and foremost you must come to terms with a couple of truths(just as i did). first truth is no one ever stopped you from contributing to a 529 plan consistently over your childs life to provide for a cushion to pay for school tax free. Thatâs 100% on you and not the poor . Second truth, college is likely your first experience of culling. Yes, for many this is an eye opener . It sounds like its the first time your seeing your child put into the precieved less than ideal class of people. It sucks. She probably has the grades to do much âbetterâ but wonât get that chance so a precieved door has in fact closed. Get over it and stop making your child feel less accomplished than those âother rich and poor kidsâ. In fact i would still have her reach for a couple of those schools as you never know. For me personally i am glad to know i actually got into two very good private schools, though like you i could not attend due to money. So what.Third truth, get used to the idea of loans. Nothing wrong with your child taking out the most they can , which is only $5000 per year. An Entirely payable some and just maybe she will learn some fiscal
responsiblity. Last truth, TCNJ is by far the best opportunity for her , if she is interested in Bio if she can get into the program. It is held in high regard, and the school acceptance standards are in fact higher than Rutgers and its very well connected to the business in the area , which is ewing (10 min from princeton).
There are highly successfull people that come out of all kinds of schools. Itâs entirely up to the student what
they get out of school. so the dream of my child went to -----(fill in ivy league school) is over, get another dream.
Oh and if subsidizies aggrivate you as they do many, start voting more conservatively.
Personally , i think higher ed(ivy especiallly) is a totall scam as to the fact that they have built ridiculously large tax advantaged endowments in the multiple billions of dollars. Itâs time the legislators serious went after these funds
and installed a real use or lose tax. Seriously, why does Harvard need 34 billion endowment? why does it grow tax free? Why doesnât Princeton university pay property tax? Want to get the cost of these private instituions down? Its
not like Hillary and Obamaâs nothing of plan suggest , making community college cheaper. Thatâs freakin nothing.
Force these big institutions that have become hedge funds by proxy to truly contribute in a meaningful way. Seriously its osbcene tax free 34 billion. If they donât want to accomadate more students, then prehaps they should be made to have public affilate schools that they inturn endow. Why not. HIgher education as become a tax dodge. Take a look at the growth of school presidents salaries vs the general economy and ask why.
for halfemptypocketâ Being a poor or average kid in a rich kids school does NOT suck. Itâs a great opportunity to
compete agianst those kids in all manner as best you can. It is an enriching experience and the opportuniy to make new friends and contacts that might be helpful in the future. It is good for a average kid to see what is possible and hopefully spark a desire to get there. It takes a self confidence and positive attitude, but it is worthwhile. Itâs an opportunity.
Most education (K-12 and college) policy in the US is state-based, and the various statesâ policies with regard to educational opportunity for those from families of all SES levels vary considerably (and changes over time have mostly been in the direction of making college education less affordable as states have defunded state schools).
@wppdf2 Real world example here.
Biology is strong at the University of the South, an LAC ranked 12th for quality of teaching by USNWR, with great research opportunities for undergrads. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q3PJ747I5M&list=PLCF15990B7D9F633E&index=2 Aspiring CEOâs might be interested in the Bonner Leadership Program, of which Sewanee is a participant.
Tuition + room & board: $49,750. You are willing to kick in $26,000, which leaves $23,750. Your daughter may be eligible for a Wilkins merit award (100 awarded annually) of $15,000. This would leave $8,750. She takes out a student loan in her name for freshman year, leaving $3,250 (I know you said no loans, but a bit of flexibility is needed to make this work). For the balance she works part time her senior year of HS and next summer.
A top-notch private education is available for a price you are willing to pay, if your D desires that. You just have to acknowledge that great teaching is available outside of the Ivies, and your D has to visit, and apply to, a wide selection of schools to find the best fit at a price point that works for you. The process is not complicated, but it is time consuming.
Regarding personal attacks, I suspect some posters were put off by your comment that you are somehow being âpunished.â Many of us feel that way at some point during the application process. But we put those feelings aside, and we talk to our children about possibilitiesânot limitations.
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@mom2collegekids - itâs not just âthat I worked so hardâ - thatâs true we did. Its that I made a series of very good (conservative) decisions throughout my life - we made decisions with the intent that if something went wrong we werenât going to rely on someone else (including public assistance) to bail us out. BUT most importantly I had CARING PARENTS who made a series of good decisions. They were mature adults - I too came from a lower middle class (at most) family so while I never went hungry, I definitely didnât have fashionable clothes, ever went to a restaurant or a on vacation in which we didnât stay at a family members home. I donât think attacking me personally is very constructive. Here lies the problem - CARING PARENTS - no government program can provide this.
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@wppdf2
My comment about âthat I worked so hardâ was not directed at YOUâŠit was directed at your daughter (DD).
We see this sort of thing here ALL THE TIMEâŠExcellent students who worked hard in high school (which is their jobâŠthatâs what theyâre supposed to do), think that that entitles them to the school of their choice regardless to the impact to their family.
Iâve been there. My older son had very high stats, and he declared that he was going to go to a tippy top school because otherwise all his âhard workâ was wasted (those werenât his exact words, that that was the intended message).
Our second child was also a top student, and there was no way that both kids were going to get sent to pricey privates for undergrad (we donât qualify for any aid whatsoeverâŠeven with two in school.)
We began touring schools where they would receive merit scholarships to bring costs down. They applied to various schools that all seemed to be good merit prospects, and many nice awards came in. In the end, they both ended up at our flagship which cost us so little because of large merit, itâs ridiculous. In the end, it worked out well. We saved so much on their undergrad that weâve been able to continue to help them as they moved on from their undergrad years.
I donât know what your DDâs career plans are, but a bio degree will get her nowhere unless she either goes to grad school or med school. Since thatâs likely in the future, spending a bunch of money on undergrad is just foolish. Even if she were to get into a funded PhD program, there are still costs that parents (or loans) have to cover.
If she goes on to med school, then there will be a LOT of costs with that âŠeven outside of the actual med school COA. My S2 called me last week and said he needs another car (his is on its last legs) and he needs a dependable car because of his hospital rotationsâŠoften has to be there by 5 am. So, the Bank of Mom & Dad is open for car-shopping. I moved car money into his acct, sent the pink slip from his current car to his address, and heâs out looking. It never ends. $$$ Earlier in the summer, he needed a better stethoscopeâŠso more money moved to his acctâŠhe also now needs some new white coats and scrubs. But, if we had spent mega-thousands for undergrad, doing much of this would be unlikely.
Truly exceptional low income students do get offered buckets of free money. But they are far and few between. The vast majority of low income students do not have the environment & support to facilitate building a competitive admissions resume.
Post #48 sounds like an inhabitant of Princeton, NJ who cannot sleep at night because PU does not pay property taxes and even moved your train station 500 ft. However without the PU the town would be a corn field.
Bonner program is avaiblel at TCNJ, and itsâ ranked #1 top public and #3 overall school by USNW in itâs category.
Her SAT scores are between 1900 and 1950 (from my memory) - she did particularly well on writing so her reading/math are only in the low to mid 600s. She tells me she could have done much better with more time. She will have a total of 4 AP classes and maybe 6 or so honors classes. She is undefeated as a mock trial defense attorney. She is president of German club (she was an exchange student in Germany for a little while.). She has made nationals for FCCLA twice and placed well. She is an excellent public speaker. Her teachers love her and always give her praise for anything she does. She plays varsity tennis. She studied karate for a little over 6 years and has attained a 1st degree black belt. She has decided in her senior year that she wants to take violin so she is - her teacher is quite impressed with the progress she has made in so little time (again she is very disciplined - she actually practices every day). She is a driven person and can manage her time better than anyone I know. She likes biology/genetics but I am trying to get her to major in finance or even engineering (like the rest of the family).
As a parent I am so frustrated that she will not go to a name brand school because of the cost. I know she will get $$ for academic merit but not at schools that she is interested in. My biggest problem is with parents who donât guide their children with financial decisions. An 18 year old has no idea what it is to be in $100k or even $200k of debt and they SHOULD NOT be making the decision to take out these loans to go to these overpriced schools. I canât justify non-state schools because of the cost. I could go into my savings (including retirement) but there is not enough ROI on this. A state school will yield the same job.
Thanks!
OP, I understand where youâre coming from. We live in NYC and make around what you do. But I would like to point out a couple of things:
first of all, the very rare poor kid who gets buckets of money usually doesnât get everything covered by free money. We see here heartbreaking cases of kids who did everything right, got offered 98% of their costs covered and simply can not get those last dollars for things like travel or winter coats or books or food and then donât end up in the name brand college. The dollar amounts may differ, but often poor kids who were offered large amounts of free money canât cross the finish line because of amounts that we would see as very tiny.
I respectfully submit that your daughterâs SAT scores arenât high enough for tippy-top schools, not even in the ballpark, and like I tell my own kids, that profile is a dime a hundred in our part of the country. So where else will you look? What schools do you consider name-brand? My D had substantially higher scores than you D and several very interesting ECs and got treated very kindly, under your budget, at places like Muhlenberg, Lafayette, etc. Maybe your daughter would consider a service academy?
Debt is easy to explain to an 18 year old, you just use an on line calculator to show them that say $100K in student loans will cost them $1K per month for 10 years. When you can revive them after they faint to the floor, they will understand why they do not want to borrow more money.
Honestly, with her current SAT scores, she is not getting into a top 20 or maybe 30 college, so this banishment to Rutgers is not a huge step down ⊠she can work to get those up, it means $$$ for many merit programs.
You being frustrated and likely vocal about this best school issue is likely the reason she will feel she is missing something. If she points at Suzie, remind her of the 1000/month payments and she will recover. Sure there are kids whose parents have $250K in savings earmarked for college, but there are also the Kardashians or whatever.
Perceived door is only there is you chose to see it.
Rutgers grads do not get a R or PS (poor school) branded on their forehead. I donât think any business venture would ever look down on a bio degree from Rutgers (if we were talking undergraduate business there could be some IB type firms that prefer Ivy grads, but we are not). Rutgers is a high research university and is both nationally and internationally ranked for science programs.
http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476 = Rutgers part of prestigious AAU
While TCNJ is smaller, the idea that it is better than Rutgers doesnât seem to hold water, especially for a research science field like biology. Rutgers is nationally ranked and gets lots of federal research dollars which translates into opportunities for even undergraduates. TCNJ is a regional university and is ranked in a completely separate pool than Rutgers or even Rutgers-Newark.
Rutgers new honors program is small and has a beautiful new dorm.
I like the Cook college biology offerings and my microbiology class there was excellent and it is a much quieter campus. Busch is also suburban and again Bio was excellent. What is she interested in anyway? There are a lot of bio subsets including Bio engineering or with NJ pharm industry in mind, bio or pure chemical engineering.
Rutgers would allow her to pursue all these options ⊠smaller schools may not have engineering âŠ
Who knows the Big 10 games might even give her something to do on a Saturday âŠ
@wwpdf2 if you read your original post you do claim it is unfair for poor kids to get a âfull rideâ at an Ivy or âname brand schoolâ while your d is not eligible for one due to your income despite her gifts. So you left yourself wide open with that one.
Sounds like you need to also have a chat with your D about her expectations and the reality of the value of money and ROI. My s really got that one when he realized the OOS flagship public school he was considering was 2 1/2 times more expensive than the our instate university he was looking at. He realized that is money better saved towards a down payment on a mortgage or grad school costs.